LMS Hughes Crab 42859

A very hard headed view.
After seeing the photo posted above. Spares. Useful pieces would be the cylinders, obviously boiler, motion brackets.
The way of the world I'm afriad as I can see this happening with a few more locos left in ex scrapyard condition.

 

Don't worry, I am fully aware of the shape and proportions of rebuilt Scots and Patriots. However, after speaking with a former engineman of Bushbury, he assures me that the original Patriots were not known for being efficient steamers. I believe this opinion is shared by others as well who had footplate experience on the original Patriots. Therefore, going back to the original comment by THE MELTER, why is ''The only new build / recreation project in the railway arena worth any consideration'' a locomotive that wasn't very good at steaming in the first place??? Hence my point, a rebuilt Patriot would be far more appropriate given a comparison between the two designs.

 

Dont we have 4 rebuilt patriots in preservation already.. 45699 being the next one to steam..

 

The Patriot is going to have a brand new boiler - it ought to be possible to modify it to improve steaming without compromising the external appearance, that would surely be a more interesting way to go rather than just create another taper boilered engine.

 

I understand that the Jubilees (aka rebuilt Patriots) could be indifferent steamers too. Apparently crews often preferred to take a "good" Black 5. Ray.

 

Who says it will be original? And who says we are not eliminating these issues. For instance after high milage the smokebox wrappers used to leak. This has been sorted out in the design work. With regards the boiler only time will tell on what will happen there. And did the person you know have a good un (ie when they were new and very much liked) or when they were being run down? And besides its only the melters opinion that its his choice for a new build.

If you win the lottery you could always build one? I had a crazy idea about building an original scot and naming it ROYAL BRITISH LEGION. To keep with the memorial aspect of the group. But I would need a euro millions win to do my crazy schemes.....

Gav

 

Dear Sir,
I was expressing my personal opinion, simply that. Not one based on technical issues, or any other fact based performance criteria,
And, who do you know from bushbury anyway?

The Melter

 

Getting back to the loco this thread is about, given that the scrapyard has been identified on here,has anyone confermed weither the wheel sets etc are still in one piece, or have been cut up? are the owners of the Yard also subject to the same order taken out against the persons involved in the removal of the items? or are they an innocent party caught up in all of this? because would anyone reporting on behalf of the company, ie someone who might work there be not allowed to pass on information? i only ask because as reported earlier, its a right can of legal worms

 

When new, the Baby scots were very highly regarded and did well on the two hour Birmingham - Eustons, the fastest trains on the LMS at the time. When the Jubilees first appeared, they were the ones which had the steaming problems and the Baby Scots were reallocted to the two hour expresses, such was the opinion of the operators.

It's true that they were overshaddowed by Stanier engines, and that they did not age well: the smokebox leakage problems have already been mentioned. But a good Baby Scott was a good and useful machine. And I have to agree, the rebuilt version was just another form of rebuilt Royal Scot, and with two already preserved, it's difficult to justify building a third one.

 

i mention'd in one of my last 1/2 post's that i might, (and i mean might so not trying to up any hope's up) at the scrapyard through a work mate....

 

One further off-topic post for which I apologise, but there is a need to correct what is said above. Jubilees are not rebuilt Patriots. "Rebuilt" Patriots, none of which are preserved, where the rebuilt taper boiler Royal Scot lookalike.
The Jubilee class were intended to be an improved version of the "Baby Scot" or "Patriot" class, and involved grafting a Swindon-influenced ( Stanier had come from Swindon) taper boiler onto the three-cylinder Patriot chassis. No Patriots were rebuilt into Jubilees, they (the Jubilees) were all new construction. And finally, for the sake of completeness, two Jubilees, 45735 and 45736 were rebuilt with the larger Royal Scot boiler.

Right, back to 42859....

 

I used the term " rebuilt Patriot" as a tongue-in-cheek jab at Stanier using the Patriot chassis with a taper boiler to produce a "new" loco - the Jubilee class. In fact the last batch of Patriots was cancelled and replaced by Jubs. I didn't really mean Bunsen, Southport et al - it was a joke! Apologies if it caused confusion. Seriously though several former footplatemen swore that an unrebuilt Patriot would stand more thrashing than a Jubilee. Ray.

 

Tongue-in-cheek taken, Ray! No problem.

My only recollection as a teenagerof this class was of the Bristol Barrow Rd unrebuilt Patriots on the heavy cross-country trains of the day ie Bristol up to Sheffield where the Bristol engine came off in favour of a NE engine to go on to York and Newcastle.
On more than one occasion I recall an unrebuilt Patriot stalling on the long 1-100 climb North of Chesterfield and having to stop for a blow-up at Dronfield. I never recall the Jubilees being in that difficulty. I guess at that time the unrebuilt Pats were past their prime, particularly for such heavy work.

 

Can all this non-Crab talk be moved to a more appropriate thread please? My interest is in preservation (as per the name of the forum), not building replicas...

On the subject of which... I'm unsure why anyone would want to build a Patriot, unrebuilt Scot or whatever, but if your motivation is to build something which looks a bit different from the surviving types and you don't really care if the originals weren't very good - the obvious candidate is No. 6399, surely?

 

Surely GT3 is the way to go? Plenty of 4-6-0 chassis kicking around that are unlikely to ever see action, pick up 2nd hand gas turbine, grab the genny and traction motors off an old box, bish bash bosh, away you go! I'm sure James May or Scrapyard Challenge would have it sorted over a couple of hourly episodes.

 

I think even Scrapheap Challenge would struggle to bodge a few railway bits together and get one of these:
GT3

Anyway, back to the Crab ...

Richard

 

Don't see a problem.
Its only a Class 20 with a bit of bodywork, a tender and some different wheels.
http://www.enuii.org/vulcan_foundry/oddities/gt3_in_siding.jpg

 

OK Philgor I will PM you and supply an email address to get you in touch with the owner. He would appreciate all the help he can get.

 

At Last,
two people doing what his forum and movement is suposed to be about,
HELPING SOMEBODY OUT

Well done

 

Apologies for OT, but must point out that GT3 was mechanical transmission, so no need to look for S/H genny and traction motors......