The Talyllyn - Suggestions

That would be a shame, but if its left 'empty' any longer that may be its only viable future

 

It's long time since Reg Boyce ran it as a proper hotel - though we don't say too much about Beryl

 

Here's a radical suggestion. The reason for building any railway in the first place is to serve a transport need. If one were to look at the business opportunities in the area, the one crying out for a railway is Machynlleth - CAT - King Arthur's Labyrinth - Corris. Right gauge, historic links, not far away, good SG rail service, loads of punters. Think the unthinkable - move the TR to Corris. If you can't get visitors to the railway, take the railway to the visitors.

 

Your hilarious, by the way the better SG rail service is at Tywyn surly?...

 

Not that I'm advocating Andrew's amusing idea (although a rejuvenated full line Corris would be a sight to see), but Machynlleth definitely has a far better SG service than Tywyn, as it is on the Aberystwyth run as well as the Pwllheli. The difference must be something like 12 trains a day in Mach to 4 in Tywyn? Of course, the Corris currently isn't in Mach...

Here's an idea though:

Point One: I am sure there are plenty of reasons, not least the TR's own heritage, that would hold this idea back.
Point Two: I am not necessarily condoning it, merely positing it.

1) The Corris and the Talyllyn link up, to be operated in the same vein as the FfR and WHR under one company.
2) The excitement generated by this and the proposed plan will generate income from enthusiasts, possible grant aid from Cardiff and the HLF.
3) The Corris is extended back into Mach, just as Andrew suggests, with a park and ride facility and a connection with the Centre for Alternative Technology.
4) The Corris and the TR become able to mutually support one another financially.

I can dream...

 

Are you really serious or is this just trying to rubbish what is a sincere discussion by people concerned about the TR ? You being spokesperson for the WHR/FR i would of expected an slightly higher level of suggestion.

 

I visited the TR last year, for the first time, and was bowled over by its charm. The First, and still amongst the Best. But.. I did a bit get the impression the line existed as much for its volunteers as for its paying visitors. I think there's a real need to quantify what activities and spaces make money and what is more 'nice to have'. A museum is a useful facility but tends to cost without return... unless there's a 'must see' part of it for which a small charge can be made.

Catering needs to be looked at thoroughly. Is there a way to encourage local people to use it (at a discount?) on a regular basis for coffee or a meal, without necessarily travelling? Tweak the menus - simplify the offer with more choice for children and make a point of value. And try to keep service slick as well as friendly; difficult but when it works the customer really does appreciate it. If catering can be made to pay for itself, or even make money, that's a battle won with honours.

Discounting fares has been mentioned here before - can be a two-edged sword, but if you get it right it is a winner. The biggest loss of custom seems to be in the shoulder months; concentrate on these with special events (half-term weeks/ bank holidays are ideal but not exclusive) and look to run a normal timetable but with some extra speciality. Maybe combine it with a discount, for kids, say - couple it with a simple activity and a small prize - and make sure all the kids get a prize. Look to recoup whatever you lose on the kids with a bonus from the adults, and if they think they're getting good value they'll both spend more with you and spread the good word.

Don't be tempted by galas - these tend to be good for the volunteers but not so lucrative. Though there's logic in keeping the troops happy too...

But please be really, really careful not to spoil the essence of the TR. It's a unique, loved, anachronistic snapshot that deserves to be marketed as a National Treasure.

Roger

 

What an interesting posting!

This is a most interesting posting but there have been others on this thread which seems to have mischief in mind rather than assistance. Can I suggest that T.R. people approach other comparable organisations direct and go to see how they do things from the inside. I sure that help would be given. There will be times when there will be revelations and others when it would be felt there is little to be learned. As long as a truly open mind is kept this does not matter.

I have made a few comment on individual points made by Roger as set out above.

There is a quotation from a cynical French motor engineer operating in the UK to the effect "Eet is a wise man who copy wizzout altair".

Good luck

Paul

 

A great post Thank you Roger. Above all I am glad you enjoyed your visit as so many others do. I will share your thoughts with our Marketing meeting next week and will try and post a response.

 

It is, indeed, a great post. However there are those, like T.R. member michaelh who appear to feel the "essence of the T.R." has been spoiled by the Wharf redevelopment already. As an outsider "I couldn't possibly comment" but I would hope that when these matters are considered any element of self delusion is thrown out of the window. Not an easy thing for mere human beings to do!

Paul

 

Well, it depends how dire the situation is. If the TR was unable to survive in its present form it might make sense. It doesn't strike me as a ludicrous suggestion, just a desperate one that would only be considered in equally desperate circumstances. I recall the RHDR considering upping sticks and moving some time ago.

I feel the TR has lost its way somewhat - it used to be our favourite line, but the last time we went the new facilities at Wharf and the modern coaches had lost much of the atmosphere. It's all very well updating for the tourists but if there aren't many tourists and in the process you put off the casual enthusiast, then you have made yourself a sizeable problem. These days I'd rather visit Welshpool. (Which has a quite different atmosphere, but one I like.)

I'm not against a modern type line, I volunteer on the WHR for goodness sake, but the Talyllyn's USP was its originality, which with its Emmett style trains was very different to say the Festiniog, which has always had more of a main-line feel. I do also understand things cannot stay forever the same, but equally if you make change to suit the market and you have analysed the market wrong, you are in big doggy-doo.

 

One of the great things about the TR is that there is no plc or grating between organisations running the railway. It runs to make a surplus to invest back in the railway. 'Profit' is not sought.

As you say, Michael is a member the same as me so has the equal right to offer his opinion on the railway. We must always be careful as the vast majority of work undertaken at the TR is by volunteers who give up their own time to do the best they can for the railway.

As suggested in the other thread, after spending a day out in the snow helping maintain the railway it is disheartening to see posts such as 'give up' , not a criticism of people, just a matter of diplomacy. Some people may think 'what is the point' in all the hard work for it to be criticised. That would be terrible.

We have seen opinions saying the carriages are too 'old and uncomfortable' and also they are too 'modern'. It is difficult to please all but the Victorian train should satisfy the enthusiasts and the 1970s accessible saloons should satisfy the modern family.

Having seen ideas and the mass of hard work TR volunteers put in I hope we can stay positive and look to the future. Suggestions to improve are great and I hope they keep coming

 

Ellis - please get that Paypal Donation button on the front page of the website pronto!
Then we can ask all the posters on these two threads to hit that button while the debate is still ongoing!!

 

i have passed on the Paypal suggestion and unfortunately the costs associated with Paypal are 'huge' and large parts of donations would go in the processing. Online donations is definitely on the agenda but may take another form. I will have some more info on this next week.

 

I wonder whether it would be possible for the TR to strike a deal with the 'main line' for inclusive tickets from places such as Manchester and Birmingham? These could perhaps be sold online. They might even be 'open' that is capable of being used on any day. Just thinking it might encourage a few more long distance day-trippers.

 

im not sure if something like that would be possible, but the TR already offers a 20% discount if you turn up with a mainline ticket to Tywyn from that day (and yes that is advertised on the website)

cheers

 

A quick glance at the WHR and FR sections of the (huge) joint website of these two railways reveals they have online donation facilities, oddly enough with different agencies handling these. W&LLR uses Pay Pal so there are plenty of options to choose from.

Incidentally the W&L does online ticket sales with 80p off the adult return as a "lure".

Paul

 

Im the first to agree the TR needs online ticketing and donations and it is being looked into.

 

Are you sure? We (the Bluebell) have used Paypal for donations and has raised about £8,000 or so, and I am not aware of any suggestions that the charges are unreasonable.

We also use JustGiving and have raised many tens of thousands online (probably getting on for £100k all told). The fees are about 5% of the donation plus a one-off credit card fee (regardless of donation size) in the order of 10p. There is also a small monthly service charge - about £15 I think. Other donation services are available (Virgin Giving etc) which all have slightly different scale of fees, some biased to a larger monthly fee and lower per-transaction fees; some the other way round. But for a haircut of about 5 - 6%, the convenience is a great thing to have: many people will make a more or less impulse donation online who wouldn't go to the trouble of writing a cheque, downloading and printing a Gift Aid form, finding an envelope, finding a stamp etc - it's just too much hassle. If you want people to donate, make it easy for them, even if you have to sacrifice a few percent in transaction charges. It's not as if someone sending you a cheque is free anyway; you have a bigger admin overhead that way than collecting online.

Associated to that is JustTextGiving, which allows donation by mobile phone. At the moment (it might change), the Vodafone Charitable Trust cover all the expense of that service as part of their Corporate Social Responsibility, so there are no fees at all, and Gift Aid can be reclaimed.

There is also EasyFundraising, which gives you a donation whenever someone shops at one of several thousand retailers (for example, 2.5% of any purchase at Amazon). The Bluebell is just shy of £10,000 raised using that service over the last three years.

I believe you do probably need to be a charitable trust (or have one under your general umbrella) to get any of these to work; I don't think you can fund a PLC like that, and you certainly would need to be a charity to reclaim Gift Aid.

Tom

 

I'm by no way an Accountant, and wouldn't want to act as the TRs accountant, but 5% of a donation, to me, is a big cut.

I'm in total agreement that we need an online facility to donate, and its on the agenda, would welcome a chat on how you went about your appeals at the Bluebell.

Therein lies issues for the TR, there are three organisations involved in the TR, and various complications on the Charity arm of the railway in that the charity holds all the shares in the railway company. Gift Aid is a big push for the railway, gaining extra funds from Mr Osborne has been a mammoth job.

Text donations is ready and waiting, it just needs a suitable appeal to be attached to.