450 class DEMU disposal NIR

What I recall happening was this: -

I reported about six or seven people for making off topic posting, on a thread about the L835 DMU set owned by Richard Thornton that he started,
The reports came back via e-mail marked 'report closed',
Then I tried to log in and found I'd been banned.

This happened in July 2012.
This was all a year after any discussions over asbestos, and I had mentioned the subject since then in reponse to comments of others.
No action then.

*No*, I don't think I am some sort of authority on asbestos as despite reading plenty of web searches etc, I am sure there is plenty I do not know.
I do think some of the coverage of it is a bit over - hyped though, and that the majority of cases of ill health or death from it result from exposure to material that has been disturbed usually for a period of time.
(Could be 8 to 10 to 12 weeks on an apprentice-ship in 1940s or on work experiance in early 1960s, could be 20 years in a boiler shop).
As has been said there have been plenty deaths or illnesses caused during comparatively recent times (1985/86 onwards) caused by asbestos containing material that was in poor condition, not encapsulated or poorly maintained which maintenance staff have been exposed to.
(One case occured in Cheltenham 1988 - 2000 where a caretaker at a primary school often worked in a boiler room / cupboard which had blue asbestos lagging above the front door, and whenever he opened or shut the door it gave off visible dust. He later contracted cancer lung lining and died in 2000s.)

 

All went to council tip aand placed in asbestos skip, all sealed before it went - had to be, the tip people said had to be well sealed up so?

 

yeah but the point is that you placed yourseflf in danger sealing it...can you not see where you went wrong here or are you the "only soldier in the parade that is instep?"

 

The DMU car was parked alongside a builders yard - although disused there were still bales of building material lying around, and people could come back at any time to collect these,
Over the fence less than 200 yards away was the White Lion Retail Park and the road leading up to it,
Alongside the siding where the DMU car was parked was the old railway line, where people often walked,
All the windows had been broken by vandals,
There was loose blue asbestos and contaminated material in the interior.

The alternative to sealing it... : -

If the vehicle had not been cleaned up and the remainder that could not easily be removed placed in the rear (still covered by the protective sheet) then the asbestos material would have blown out all over the builder's yard, retail park approach road et al.

There was no danger to myself.
Whilst doing this I wore protective overalls and a P3 (FPPP3) rated cartridge mask.
The overalls covered me completely bar my hands feet and face and had elasticated hoods and wrists and ankles so no fibres could get past them.
The mask of P3 rating is of the rating for blue asbestos. (The highest).

Yes I am, if the vehicle had not been cleaned up I could have been prosecuted for abandonment of the asbestos by the council Environmental Health Department.

 

Hello MTU16V4000R41,

It seems that you so like to debate with me or topics I have posted that you have registered here in order to do so - it must be that as reading your 'MTU16V4000R41's Activity' page you have not posted anywhere else on here.

I find that very flattering and thanks!

Yours,

Alfred Roberts.

 

what you should have done is called in the Professionals...I reckon you could still be prosecuted.

 

True about the compraratively brief period of exposure to blue asbestos - that does sometimes happen.
There was a case covered on the Radio 4 channel in 2001 where somebody had worked with asbestos briefly in the early 1960s, disliked the job (found it very dusty etc) and left, then years later started suffering from breathlessness.
It turned out to be cancer of lung lining caused by the brief period working with the blue asbestos.

 

Essex Rail Traction Group (ex - members of / etc) had become involved with the South Midland Rail Group and helped them with work on the line.
South Midland Rail Group brought the diesel shunter to Dunstable as a publicity stunt. Essex Rail Traction Group arranged the deal, and South Midland Rail Group paid for transport costs for the diesel shunter.
In exchange for the help South Midland Rail Group allowed the Essex Rail Traction Group arrange to bring a vehicle (the DMU car) and arrange other to bring a few other old rail vehicles (a Mk1 belonging to Central Railways LTD and four four wheeled vans (two Covered Carriage Trucks and two four wheeled Ferry vans that had been converted in to offices) belonging to haulier Engineering Services).

The DMU vehicle had to leave its previous home as there was a court order from Southend County Court requiring the removal of the vehicle and it was already over a year over the deadline when it left.

I did not know who the land owners were and when I found out from the local council I had never heard of them before.
Neither had the railway group - they thought the land was ex - industrial and belonged to the owners of old factorys nearby or the retail park built on site of it.

I'd already reported the blue asbestos in the vehicle to the local council Environmental Health Department at South Beds District Council, they got an Officer to ring me up and I took his advice on this precise matter: -
"Knowing all the regs and so on, people have said to me that they do not apply when not at work, others have said they do, where do you stand on this matter?"

His reply was (and I quote his exact words) -
"If you choose to expose yourself to blue asbestos there is not a lot I can do about it if you are not at work. You are not at work!"

Problem with that is that: -
First, one has to mess around with finding and engaging somebody to do the work.
Then, there is a 14 day period of notice that has to be given to HSE before work can start ('notifiable asbestos material') which means that by the time the period of notice was up the blue asbestos material would have blown out of the window.

Subsequently: -
The council could not trace who owned the DMU car.
The people who bought it from Battlefield Railway Essex Rail Traction had accused the Battlefield Railway of still being the legal owners, which they later admitted was false.
So they served notice on the landowner to decontaminate it, which they did.

 

sorry I don't beleive that. If it was an emergency situation, you should have dialled 999 and left the emergency services get the right people there.

 

Just watched Back to the Future part 3...
With all those nuclear fusion reactors about, Asbestos looks to be a small issue,

So now I know a steam loco can fly...
With 2015 so close you won't need bogies to regauge, just a flux capacitor and a hover board, so Alfred might be onto something, if he can just hold the scrappies back for 24 months.

 

Took clothing off, bagged it and disposed of it. Had a good wash as well!

I took the clothing to the council tip asbestos skip along with all of the asbestos waste from the DMU car.

I separated it out in to one container full of blue asbestos fallen from the ceiling, containers full of waste with visible particles (mainly broken glass with visible contamination), and waste with no visible particles (mainly glass from windows recently broken).

 

I reported the damage to the DMU to the police who advised to speak to the Environmental Health Officers of South Beds District Council (which I did).
I arranged for the police to send officers to meet me about the damage to the DMU car (all windows broken) at the siding when I was there and they sent two officers out to see me whilst I was there.

The method you talk of - for police etc to send personnel of their own around - did not exist in 2001.
In 2012 October when someone dumped white asbestos waste in nextdoor neighbour's front garden, when I rang the police 999 and told them, they arranged for the local Fire Brigade to come around to bag it up, with a big plastic bag and tape marked 'Environment Agency', and their landlord then arranged for its removal.

 

did you wear protective clothing or take any precautions when you removed the contaminated clothing?

 

The exact timeline of events is irrelevant.

However it seems that each and every thread you posted in / created over at WNXX descended into bedlam very quickly. Be it threads about non existent railways in South Bedfordshire, Asbestos issues or involving yourself with railway vehicles with which you had no direct involvment and where basically not your concern. Hence the decision to ban you permanently from the forum. I believe the account still exists, the moderators of this forum will know why this is done.

I assume you have advised NIR / Translink that you have neither the means to pay for or remove these vehicles from their premises? What concerns me is that other groups looking at the units for 4SRKT spare parts or other items might have their endeavours thwarted if NIR reach the conclusion that UK preservationists are a bunch of time wasting buffoons.


I've read your comments regarding altering the track gauge / wheel lateral spacing on the unit bogies and believe that to be a wholly unworkeable solution. I know how I would do it if it was me but suffice to say it cannot be done properly without recourse to major engineering facilities which are beyond your and my means. I believe one UK TOC sent someone out to look at these units and reached the conclusion that repatriating and using them in the UK wasn't a remotely viable option.

 

Why thank you for your concern. In addition in response to your PM I have never owned or operated an engineering / rail vehicle refurbishment establishment in Eastleigh, I believe you may be confusing me with someone else...

 

"Alfred Roberts" may be an unfortunate choice of username, as it seems to have established a reputation amongst several forums.
However I could also raise the possibility that "Alfred Roberts" is a brand image which has been created to enthuse such a reaction from the community.
There are "types" which seek to do this, this could/maybe one of them.

 

Not so much a brand name, possibly more of a legend in his own bathwater....


Anyway his removal from WNXX has happened, is still current and is not open to further debate.....

 

The trailer vehicles could be re-guaged by lifting the bodyshells, removing the NIR guage B4 bogies from beneath them and then fitting UK guage B4 bogies in their place.
This has been done many times on Mk 2b and Mk 2e coaches both when sent over to NIR and when repatriated from NIR.

The power cars have B6 bogies with Mk 6 springs.
Either fit SR EMU bogies OR people have suggested class 73 bogies.
The force ventilation system of the traction motors would be an issue.

What is probably not possible is to fit bogies fitted with modern air suspension to the Mk 1 underframes (a la what a TOC would want - to provide a comparable ride to the class 150).

The engines are very old design, dating back to 1950s, and would need to be replaced, another big expense.
Once the engine had been replaced the main and ancillery *generaters* would need to be replaced with *alternaters* of modern design - a big modification, and modifications required to make the electrical system work with *alternaters* of modern design would then follow on from this. Another big expense.