Diesel behind ?

Re Tom's 1 to 4 above I guess another fifth valid reason for having a thunderbird diesel on the back is delay fine avoidance.

This comment is not to restart the debate about why Tangmere stuck on Parkestone bank or why the 47 on that day was dropped off early (it was banking earlier out of Weymouth as planned) but had it been kept on it could have got Tangmere over the top broadly on time. I'm not sure how the Network Rail delay system works but presumably that hour or so's line blockage delay to Cross Country & SWT services will have led to such a penalty fine. Although a diesel on the back will cost the operator money having it there may well defer the risk of a fine - balancing act for the promotor as to which £ cost is likely to be the lowest.

Nb. The Tangmere/Parkestone thread was closed please don't reopen that specific debate here.

 

Amongst the froth about why one is 14 coaches and the other 7 and diesels abound, I could suggest another theory as to why the Hall had 7 Coaches and the Black 5 many more..

Perhaps it was as simple as the Lancastrian trip was more popular ?, perhaps the number of passengers were bumped up on an expectation of something similar to a 5.. but not Black..

 

All ver valid points, but you missed the 5th one that many on here seem to think...

They put the diesel on for no operating reasons, its just to con the passengers as obviously I sat behind a keyboard would know considerably more that the company operating the train.

 

Was entirely tongue in cheek, its just the fact that many on here seem to think that WCRC (for instance) make decisions on the basis that 47xxx has not been out for a while, wouldn't it be nice to tag her on the back of that train for a day out and to hell with the extra coal and water that will need!

Not sure what more they can do, if it needs a diesel it needs a diesel in the consist and this may come up at the last minute.

I note interestingly that on the WCRC website for their Welsh train (April 1st) it does state

'Should our steam engine fail we will operate the tour by diesel train and refund the steam supplement of £5.00.'

Cue to rapid anti WCRC responses that £5 isnt enough.

 

Interesting re £5. They own their diesels so no hire in charges and IIRC also some of the steam locos too so engine crew and fuel costs their only variable. On train crew, charges to Network Rail, bought in food costs etc, etc., would be unchanged so from their perspective that is probably a fair refund of difference. Example 200 pax load x £5 = £1000 for the train.

Punters perspective variable - if you've booked a party trip to mark a special anniversary you want it to run, disappointing not steam but you've still had the occasion. If you wanted engine X over route Y (or even just simply a steam run of any sort) £5 is not the % you would regard as the steam premium part of the tour's fare. Also to factor in are things that can't be stopped in short notice failures, pax who have a booked hotels so are already at the start point and want to ride, food WCRC would otherwise waste etc.

Personally I reckon if you look at it as £1000 upwards in refund for the train it is probably realistic and on balance if WCRC still run the train with a small refund offered by giving the booked day out and meal booked etc., they will have upset far less of their punters than if they'd cancelled.

 

If the cost of a steam loco is an extra fiver, I'd be happy to pay an extra fiver to have a spare loco in steam on the day incase of failure.

 

That £5 will be the extra cost of one loco in steam over and above running the tour with a diesel. It may not even be the actual marginal cost extra but an arbitrary figure. If it is a late loco failure (leaky mud hole door or similar) there won't even be much of a fuel cost saving as the steamer will already have been fired up and got towards pressure. Realistically therefore you have scenario (a) engine is failed pre-steaming or (b) engine is failed during prep phase. In scenario (a) unless the tour is from somewhere where a second FIT and suitable loco can be fired up as a substitute at no extra cost from the loco pool the promoter will incur extra costs in getting a second loco brought over to work the tour. In (b) run with a diesel but the only saving being perhaps crew costs (if on overtime or day rate hire not an annual salary) and any lower fuel cost if diesel is cheaper than coal and water.

WCRC run the Dorset Coast Express tours out of Southall & Yeovil. They have in the past run a light engine trip to replace a long enough known about failure and stuck with steam traction but also have had days where a diesel has run one or both of the legs. Be fair to them - they have a loco pool for the DCE trips (contingency planning for a reserve engine), failures happen, they still run most of the trips.

 

Just a thought,there were 3 great steam trips yesterday,the Devon Banks,Sapperton and Ais Gill were all seperately conquered and NO Diesels involved on any of them. Lets hope this is a sign of better things to come!

 

This is just amazing, I thought that Diesel behind was a Pseudonym for an individual constantly emitting unpleasant noise and fumes... ahem, from behind.

Think its a pity that the ones employed tend to be massive things that hardly look innocuous. at least the wcrc's are maroon, maybe dbs should have a couple of Crimson and cream tractors or one with a nice pointy end like an observation car...

 

Trawling around the net, I think that I have solved the problem of a diesel on the back of tours for shunt release, stock movements etc...

Porterbrook Leasing Company Limited

If the GWR could create the autotrain and associated mech for the early 20th century sure we could come up with something in the 21st century.

 

ssk2400! Where have you been! This is one of the "funnest" topics that arrises on here every 6 months or so.

If you are going to compare operations, putting our Valentines luncheon circular up agaist a full day steam tour is like comparing apples to an umbrella!

Better to compare one of our tours such as 13 April to Salisbury. We are taking 10 or 11 coaches depending on how many more tickets we sell. That is a typical / comfortable load for us.

 

Think he means fitting the DVT TDM control system gear in the steam locomotive. I think the challenge would be the amount of work required to get approval from the various authorities as well as all the problems of getting the kit working and fully reliable in the hostile environment of a steam locomotive cab.

 

Nonsense !, have the trailing unit providing the air brake & electric heating and use one of those victorian Blower systems ( a tube you shout down) in the cabs connected via the unused vacuum pipes or steam heat pipes.... simples...

 

Just for the record it wasn't a serious suggestion. If nothing else what livery would you paint it in!!

 

Just think of the fun everyone could have arguing about that...

 

Afraid not! Look at 35028's trip today, a "modern" box at that. Ironic it is also running way behind schedule even with a box, where last weeks steam only tours ran more or less to time.

 

The 67 is there for train heating, nothing more. And the delays appear to be due to other reasons, such as doing an unplanned loco change at Acton, then watering at Challow rather than Swindon. By hey, never let the facts get in the way of a good rant.