GWR 'Dean Goods' no. 2516 - suggested restoration in Steam Railway issue no. 401

Ray, this is what we have been told. However, we've not been in contact with the Loco Group at the P&BR as of yet so we aren't considering this to be definite, but it's the best we currently have to go on.

 

Oh dear. 16 and the Chairman of two groups. Don't you think in between going to school, chasing skirt and deciding on what kind of career path you may take it maybe better to learn a little of the world of mechanical engineering, design, material specification, certification of all of the above et al?

Not got the warm feeling now. School age Chairman on the board of multiple groups, Facebook, picking the shade of pigment and getting the name plate cast. Getting a feeling of de-ja-vue. I think Stuart and his J39 / Claud Hamilton / Southern L1 / LNER L1 chums are back!

 

No I don't, and never have. I'm nearly done with school and don't have to go in often anyway. No need to chase skirt as I finished 4 years with a gal a few months ago and am now with Mr Right. I've known what career path I want to take for years, and have the opportunity to do exactly that, luckily. I'm starting an apprenticeship on the railways in November which is a fill in for legal purposes (can't finish education till I'm 17), and then will be going full time in the gaming industry as I've been talent scouted by a big development company.

Chairman on the board of TWO groups. No "picking the shade of pigment" or "getting the name plate cast", either. Like I have said, remember the origins of the GWS... Not as much has changed as many believe.

 

Maunsell man certainly can spot juvenile over-confidence! Pity more can't.

P.H.

 

I think the vast majority of us can spot juvenile over-confidence. Anyone over 21 has been there. Most such schemes will just simply fade and die and there is absolutely no problem in that. A very few will go on to succeed, as did those early preservation pioneers. I was even younger when I got involved in the movement and I was just one of many. Let them get on with their project. Offer good, sound advice, yes, but don't be a killjoy. If you are right, it will wither and die without your help. If you are wrong, then that will be a fantastic achievement.

 

we know, but it's a different world today. In the sixties, you could do whatever you could afford with no difficulty; now, with H&S regs and the rest, it's far more difficult to acheive what those guys did.

 

I was 16 and full of juvenile confidence when I set up a group to buy a loco from Barry for the NYMR, but fortuntely others who were older and wiser agreed with me and took up the reins, with the result that 80135 made it to the NYMR. Provided the plans are sound and attract support it should survive changes of management.

 

should be split off by a Mod really.... original thread was seriously interesting

 

The exact same conversation was had with the J39 group and where is that scheme?

The GWS managed to buy an existing machine by launching an appeal for funds. This was in a different time when there wasn't the raft of standards and legislation to comply with. Building a new machine from scratch in the 21st century is in a different galaxy and isn't comparable.

Like I said, good loco to build but only one group has built and run one so far and they were packed full of engineers and high flyers.

James, I wish you well with your career and your guy but please realise that age brings wisdom, knowledge and experience. To build a complex machine you need all three. At 16 its all in front of you. I started volunteering at 13 full of vim and vigour and soon realised the hard way that I wasn't single handedly going to restore a Pullman!

 

Maunsell man certainly can spot juvenile over-confidence! Pity more can't.

And some can certainly mistake determination for the same thing.


I think the vast majority of us can spot juvenile over-confidence. Anyone over 21 has been there. Most such schemes will just simply fade and die and there is absolutely no problem in that. A very few will go on to succeed, as did those early preservation pioneers. I was even younger when I got involved in the movement and I was just one of many. Let them get on with their project. Offer good, sound advice, yes, but don't be a killjoy. If you are right, it will wither and die without your help. If you are wrong, then that will be a fantastic achievement.

My sentiments exactly. Even if you don't offer support in any way, shape or form, you can at least save your own breaths. We've never said we guarantee any form of success but what we do guarantee is that we will give our all to make this happen, and that if we fail that at least we've had the guts to try, and try that hard - more than many have the courage to do these days.


we know, but it's a different world today. In the sixties, you could do whatever you could afford with no difficulty; now, with H&S regs and the rest, it's far more difficult to acheive what those guys did.

"far more difficult" - need I say more?


C'mon guys - someone's taking the p--s surely? This thread should have been kept for April 1st - it's a cracker though, look how many fell for it. Ray.

I should certainly hope you are the only one with that thought, Ray.


Maunsell man, I don't deny by any means that were I older then I could well indeed have more wisdom, knowledge and experience that would be a lot more beneficial for the project. I don't deny also that you need those three things to do something like this. The fact that I don't have them - or at least, don't have them in anywhere near as much quantity as most other serious new build/rebuild etc projects - is not a problem, in my view - simply a challenge.

Oh - and I do of course apologise if my bringing up the DGP in this thread has, er, derailed, it, so I won't of course object to any j-just j-j-jiggling it a bit, Granville.

 

it would seem more sensible to me to use that boiler to build something that is extinct....off the top of my head with no knowledge I'm thinking MSWJR 2-4-0 or Cambrian 0-6-0 both of which survived into the fifties and MAY have used a similar boiler latterly.

 

Lets look at this whole idea, to remove and overhaul 2516 is not going to happen, to remove the engine you would have to almost demolish the steam museum, if you doubt me go take a look, i have several times when i lived in Swindon.

the cost of removal and making good any damage to the building would make it non viable and thatsbefore you even strip the loco, so whats the option, if you really want a working Dean Goods, only option is to build one.
Now it gets interesting, do you go the GWS Route, and use whatever is availible and make use of existing spares where you can , or go for a completly new build.

In its favour there is a boiler availible but what else is there that is suitable, for instance are there any cylinder blocks that are the same diameter , what motion can be adapted from say a pannier? or 56 xx.

As others have said, youth should be not dissmissed as a reason for not doing anything, but it has to be tempered with experienced older heads to guide them , if enough people want a working dean goods, then it will happen, id they dont, then it won't.

 

C'mon guys - someone's taking the p--s surely? This thread should have been kept for April 1st - it's a cracker though, look how many fell for it. Ray.

I should certainly hope you are the only one with that thought, Ray.

O.K. James you've had your laugh, no-one who wants to be taken seriously describes their personal life on a forum such as this. BTW I started in the preservation movement when I was 16 as did many others and we were, by and large, taken seriously because we approached it in a professional manner. If this is not a joke then I suggest you and your buddies join an established group, get some experience and then take on a project which you have at least some chance of completing. Much as I like Dean Goods I think you may have set your sights unrealistically high for a first project. And I certainly think that I am not the only one with 'that thought'. Ray.

 

I've not had one laugh. You say nobody describes their personal life on a forum such as this - well I just did. You are by no means the only one to think that and all who do are perfectly welcome to that view. I won't argue with it/you because I don't need to; I'm satisfied in the belief that I will prove you wrong, and the knowledge that if I don't, I've at least put in all possible effort to try and do so. Personally, as I have said many times before, I see the lack of experience, wisdom, age, etc as a challenge, not a hindrance. I must say, though, that if we really had no chance of completing the Dean, that I wouldn't have thought the likes of David Bradshaw would have given us even a second of their time. We know what we want to do and that is exactly what we shall do. It doesn't matter one bit if we have ten people or ten thousand people telling us we're being daft, unrealistic or any other of the rather colourful spectrum of words that have been used to describe the likes of ourselves and our projects, because we simply carry on in spite because we are dedicated and confident enough to believe that anything is possible.

 

Gents,
Although I rarely post, I visit this forum every day as there is a lot of great information about railways around the country.
The thing that really frustrates me is the way the younger members get berated on here when they want to contribute to the preservation scene. Would you always put down your own sons and daughters ideas every time they mention something? Let them have a go at it and see what happens, they could pull it off. Ideas may start on Facebook as that is the way to spread the word these days so why assume it is always going to fail and that they haven't got a clue? If YOU don't put YOUR money in, what does it matter?
There are numerous threads about the average age of people volunteering which is high and I can vouch for that. At the railway where I volunteer, I feel like a youngster at the age of 40! If you want preserved railways to carry on long after you have moved on, don't keep giving the younger lads such a hard time. No one likes to be constantly moaned at........

 

One thing I will say, James, is that your posts are refreshingly well composed with sentences and pretty good punctuation. That is refreshing, especially from todays textspeak generation.

 

Maunsell man, having watched this group grow on facebook I can guarantee this isn't another Mr Reeder Project. For 1 thing James/Andy have been prepared to listen and seek advice when required unlike our good old friend from Somerset! They certainly appear more switched on than the J39/V3/L1 schemes, and are being pro-active in completing the necessary background work required for such a project.

As they've said baby steps is all they are taking, and I think the way they have conducted themselves so far they at least deserve a chance. A Dean Goods is an ideal loco for preservation, and should they set themselves up right I think they could become a popular group. Don't write them off just yet!

 

Young people with ambitions and ideas to get unfairly knocked on here. There's plenty of older people who come up with fanciful schemes - the Reverend I M Jolly who wanted to do something near Sharpness or somewhere near there and old Alfie Roberts and his obsession with asbestos and the SBR.

 

Yes but we are not talking about a Daniel Gooch who had been immersed in the mechanical world since the age of about eleven and whose capabilities were well known in the railway engineering world such as to justify his GWR appointment in his early twenties. Neither are we dealing with another Bowman Malcolm, appointed as mechanical head of the Belfast and Northern Counties at the age of twenty four but whose abilities were, again, well known to those appointing him.

This is the make believe world of Facebook and the internet in general. Leaving aside Gooch, we might well have another Bowman Malcolm here but we have no means of knowing if this is so. What is beyond doubt is that skill, effort and money will get sucked in and all three are in short supply. Whether the starry eyes are in a body that is eighteen years old or eighty matters little but the hard truth is that apart from one scheme led by focussed businessmen (Tornado) and another benefitting from Lottery finance (Railmotor 93) the number of standard gauge newbuilds completed so far is zero. (There are of course the replicas of early machines like Rocket or Planet).

Anyone wanting to start a new scheme needs first to have some sort of apprenticeship, like Gooch and Bowman Malcolm did.

P.H.