GWR 'Dean Goods' no. 2516 - suggested restoration in Steam Railway issue no. 401

Thank you all very much for your comments; Andy and I are rather happy chappies indeed reading these! We hope to have some interesting developments soon, and have got some quite exciting plans and ideas bouncing around behind the scenes. The team has expanded too.

Oh, and Paul, I think the reason there are currently no new builds completed is because none are done yet... ;-)

 

I am pleased to read lilBear's assurance that this is not another J39 Farcebook group. I do, however, strongly believe that these guys would be well advised to join an established group (preferably a new- build group) and learn not only the practical skills involved but also marketing and finance. If, after a couple of years, they still feel capable of tackling a new-build then, at least they will have some experience and, one hopes, credibility. Ray.

 

That, alas, is the sort of trite comment which will do your cause little good. The completion of those schemes will not be speeded up by a further dilution of finance and effort. To be blunt , there are just not enough dunghills around for everyone who wants to crow on one. Or rather not enough dung to build anything other than very tiny hills!
P.H.

 

There may not be many new builds completef yet, but to be fair many of these groups only started with in the last 10 years. And how many restoration groups have failed to restore a barry wreck in ten year's never mind build from scratch. And you have to say the next 5 years will be very interesting with the g5, county,saint, atlantic, getting on towards the home straight, with the patriot, grange, 82045 not to far behind them. So 15ish years to go from nothing/some parts to a steaming loco. Not bad in my eyes.

Although for you james 15yrs must feel like a life time ;-)

 

Or possibly the comment from someone who realises that whatever he says he will be wrong in your book and thus sees little point in engaging anymore?

I honestly don't know why young people bother on this forum as it is clear that many seem to go out of their way to put them off getting involved.

 

A completely fatuous argument. If you hadn't noticed we aren't living in the 19th century. What opportunities are there for young people to be CME of a major railway organisation?

 

I've made a few comments on the group giving advice/encouragement, while the odds are stacked against them, is there really any harm in trying ?, I seem to remember reading a bunch of kids messing about at Bridgnorth in the 60's were dismissed by many at the time....

If there's a viable plan in place and good ideas for fundraising (remains to be seen) and people willing to offer expert advice (needed anyway if preservation isn't to implode within the next two decades), then age is something of an irrelevance, there's plenty of teens/early 20's with their heads screwed firmly on and plenty of people 50+ I woulden't trust with a spoon so it isn't totally a one way street.

From what I've seen it appears to be just at the idea stage currently, if the next stage is getting enough funds to obtain drawings and somewhere suitable to build it, then that would be a good start as opposed to a numberplate and cab sidesheet sitting in the Garden Shed.

Wait and see what they do before shooting them down.

 

It is a long time for anyone, whatever their age.

Whoopee for young people getting involved! There cannot be enough of them and I agree with this posting to the extent that the "old gimmers" are often too unwilling to give up when the time comes. However anyone aspiring to lead a project of this kind needs some appropriate experience be it in business or engineering matters.

P.H.

 

The suggestion of any new build is akin to a proposal on Dragons Den with the difference that there are a lot more Dragons and (as far as I know) none of us have a large stack of cash to throw at the proposal.

That being said, in the same way as the pitchers on Dragons Den need a good first impression and a sound plan so does any new build group as between us on NP and the rest of the preservation movement is where the finance (and supporting expertise) is likely to come from.

Age shouldn't come into it but a willingness to listen and build credibility will go along way. Otherwise I'm out

 

You know perfectly well what I mean! Put simply it is that properly trained and with the necessary ability, youth in itself is not an obstacle to positions of great responsibility. Those who made the appointments concerned did so in full knowledge of the individuals involved. Mr. Littlewood may prove to be talented either as an engineer or businessman (ideally both) but no-one can say at this stage.

P.H.

 

This entire thread mirrors in tone and content the previous ones relating to the J39 / L1 / L1 / Claud Hamilton. All those who who suggested that it is possibly a good idea to gain a grounding in the complexities of steam loco design, operation, running and engineering should go and join an existing group for a few years before attempting to build one from scratch were denounced as heretics and were written off as bullies and sour pussies.

Well, the rhetoric is the same, They are talking the talk like Stuart and gang but will they walk the walk like Tornado's group? Only time will tell but age and experience will tell most people that at 16 you have an awful lot of things to experience and do. Building a steam engine may seem like a good idea but leap forward a year or two and it may have been long forgotten. In that case there are going to be a long line of people who have donated hard earned cash and / or time who are going to be sorely disappointed. Building new engines is not something that is easily achievable - ask the Clan lot. And also consider the time it will take. Beachy Head at the Bluebell started initially as a scheme when I was at school. Now i'm 42 and it is now moving into the last straight - and they had a boiler, tender frame and wheels to start with. The Atlantic team also had a sound engineering background and excellent facilities at their disposal.

Enough said

 

But he can never prove to us if he is never given a chance in the first place!

 

No they are not. Stuart etc wouldn't listen to what they were being told, and just went off into their daydream expecting everyone to support their ideas and got a shock when people started identifying faults in their plans.

James/Andy though have already been in contact with David Bradshaw and a couple of other individuals asking for guidance. They seem prepared to realise where their limits are and ask for help, unlike the J39/V3/L1 lot who wanted everything on their terms. They would make promises to go the NRM for drawings etc only to cancel at the last minute citing a lack of busfare and all the other excuses they poured out.

You say they need to join an existing group, but the fact they have realsied they will need a base and are actively looking into it is surely a positive sign of this? They've admitted on facebook they will probably need to pay for a lot of the engineneering work as they themselves don't have the skills and so are thinking of how to market it. You never know they may do all their research, make their enquiries etc and come to the conclusion it's just too much. But at least let them have a go, why the desire to shoot down so soon?

 

Mentioning the Clan, I do wonder if a lack of interest is what's seeing that stagnating somewhat, a very small class that generally wasn't very widespread and extremely rare in most big cities, Dean Goods by comparison were pretty widespread on the GWR system, certainly the other new builds of other well know classes (Grange, Patriot, Beach Head etc), seem to be moving at a reasonable pace.

Lil Bear's assessment is correct in my opinion, I've seen a few names on their giving them advice who know what they are talking about, and they seem only to happy to listen to them.

 

He can prove it quite easily by showing how committed he is to someone else's new- build before branching out on his own . Somehow I don't think that a group of teenagers are going to fund it themselves so they will be looking for others to provide up to a million pounds. They will certainly need to demonstrate, not just enthusiasm, but also engineering expertise and business acumen before people are willing to be parted from their 'hard-earned'. Ray.

 

That's a bit unfair considering most loco groups rely on other people's money unless their name is Jeremy Hoskin or Pete Waterman, their members might put their own money is (who's to say these lads won't ?) but I doubt it totally covers costs.

 

It's s big ask to give a million quid to a bunch of teenagers and hope they are clued up enough to go figure out how to get the job done, let alone a bunch of adults.

so maybe they should suggest asking every teenager in the country at every school to give them a £1 and hope they have a good "metal work" teacher and plenty of willing partners in industry to give tools, workshop space and storage to make it happen, I think they would have a hard time seeking funds in the preservation sector, with so many competing adult bids.

 

the differencw is though that those kids were actually messing about at Bridnorth, not day-dreaming on the Internet....

 

Considering there's currently nothing to "mess with", I'm not sure how that's comparable ?.

 

well it's YOU who posted it.... those kids at Bridgnorth had done an awful lot of leg work by the time they got to the stage of having something to mess with.