Coal

Err....No!

 

Bob Meanley was interviewed on Midlands Today about this.
It does seem ridiculous that we are burning Russian coal when we have an estimated 3,196 million tonnes of the stuff beneath our feet.
The figures on this site give food for thought........... http://www.ukcoal.com/why-coal/need-for-coal/world-coal-statistics

 

Perhaps - but there does seem to be a looming issue around retirement ages from paid mainstream work together with the adequacy of future company pensions.
Look around the platforms & at the staff of many heritage railways currently running midweek & note just how many of the passengers & volunteer staff are from the fortunate generation which has been able to retire as early as 50 (now 55). Will enough be this fortunate in the future?

 

I thought the BBC was based in Salford?

 

I can't see an issue with finding people to volunteer to work on platforms and drive/fire locos. I wonder what happens when the shed staff hang up their hats and call it a day? How many people are there that will be able to fix the day to day problems that crop up with steam locos.

 

I agree - it's bloody stupid that we have all this coal, yet because of the 'rules' we can't use it. IIRC it's because UK coal tends to be high in sulphur, yet modern techniques can eliminate most of the oxides of sulphur in the uptakes of the furnaces of power stations...

Mark

 

It might reach the stage where the heritage movement will have to take matters into its own hands as regards coal extraction in the form of funding a cooperative that runs a mine on behalf of the heritage railway/heritage steam industry. Expensive, but there is a lot to be said for being able to trace the origin of coal supplies, as there has been some pretty ropey stuff doing the rounds recently.

 

On my local line, it's the train crew (Guards and TTIs) department which is the short staffed one. Stations and MPD are quite well filled.

 

I wouldn't know if the stuff is of a suitable grade or price but there are still 'free miners' in the forest of dean (glos), who I'm sure would welcome the custom. How to get hold of them, er well, not sure about that.

 

I did suggest that a while back, while I appreciate the risk of "putting all your Eggs in one basket", if it's as bad as the media is suggesting, then there might not be much choice.

 

The BBC may be, but the people are still based in London so the BBC pays millions for them to commute backwards and forwards.

 

Yes - the licence fee payer has funded some very generous relocation packages - as much as £150K!

 

Yes indeed, thank you Mr. Scargill, the NUM exec. and Mrs. Thatcher.
The Selby coalfield seam is 10 ft. thick, they don't even have to put hundreds of miners down there, one big machine, a few operatives, and watch the stuff come out of the ground

Apologies to the "tree huggers" who say we should leave it where it is.

David mentioned "all eggs in one basket", better one basket than no basket at all, and as also mentioned, there is a lot of rubbish stuff coming in to the country.

 

How about a preserved/heritage/volunteer pit? Yes, I am joking.

 

It's a nice idea but a bit too idealistic. The heritage railway industry would have to show co-operation on a level never seen before and with a lot of major lines strapped for cash due to big infrastructure projects and expensive locomotive overhauls I'm not sure where the money would come from.

 

Modern techniques can - put sulfur scrubbers on the flues of power stations and there you go. But its very expensive to do, and is one of the reasons we're losing 6 coal power stations in the next few years. Bloody regs!

 

Sure, the coal is there, waiting to be mined, but what's the cost of getting it out and can you then sell it at a profitable price? The capital cost of opening up a new mine is enormous, and trying to reopen an existing one is several times worse. How much? Tens of millions? Hundreds?

What's the total size of the UK market for steam and house coal? It's probably not going to grow over the next 10 years, more likely contract. What proportion of that market could a new operation hope to win, even with pledges of "solidarity" from the heritage railways?

How much would they have to borrow to get started? Where would that capital come from?

• I can't see heritage railway companies having the money at the moment. Any spare cash is going into bridges, track, rolling stock and cafes; the essentials of keeping the line running or improvements with an immediate pay-back. Speculative ventures, even with such direct relevance to their businesses, won't get past the trustees.
• What about "private" individuals with a stake in steam railways, such as David Smith, Jeremy Hosking or John Cameron? Perhaps a few of them may be persuaded to buy shares...
• They could try selling shares to railway enthusiasts and the general public, though I suspect they'd need 20-50 times as much as any preserved line has yet raised.
• What grants might be available? How much overlap is there between areas with easily accessible coal and "deprived area" status.
• The remainder would have to come from bank loans. The proportion of loans and the interest rate would be crucial. Could the operation then make a profit, or would it just be ham-strung by interest payments? Would any bank actually be prepared to lend at the moment?

Maybe a mining engineer and a commercial finance expert could come up with a viable proposition, but it seems like an improbable venture to me.

 

Whatever the rights and wrongs of coal-fired power-stations may be, I don't think it's relevant to steam loco operations. Power-station fuel is quite different from steam coal and mines that produce one type don't tend to be able to produce the other.

 

The point i was making was in response to what Mark said about the 'modern techniques' regarding sulfur emissions meaning we can't use what's under our feet. There are other reasons, and ways to get round them, but i won't go on

 

The BBC are perhaps a bit behind the times. I've just been speaking to Hargreaves. They say that they have recently imported 30,000 tonnes of Russian coal largely to serve the heritage railway market and it is now readily available to plug that shortfall. Not cheap but not as bad as it could have been.