Just How Fast will Bittern Go?

For a bit of fun what do people think will be the fastest recorded speed (to the nearest mph) reached by Bittern on the next two high speed runs. Have started the poll at 93mph as this was all but reached on Saturday.

 

Realistically? I think they might go for a ton..I'll place my beta on 97.4mph

Dream world? 127.5mph - just to see how much fun it would be to rewrite the history books and take away NRMs excuse not to steam mallard!

 

93mph. You can justify that (beyond the allowed 90mph) within the limits of how accurately it is possible to drive a steam engine, and it has already been achieved. Much quicker than that and questions would be asked, especially as the run will be timed and monitored to within an inch of its life. No possibility of slipping up into the high nineties and being confident that only one or two people would know and they would keep it quiet. ADB would be live blogging and uploading minute by minute screencaps of his GPS, for a start...

Tom

 

if you go by the regular tours I think mid nineties is quite possible, how many times does 75 mph get breached, 80mph is not uncommon.

 

My highest (GPS) recording has been 82.4mph behind Tangmere, and that's fractionally under the +10% allowance of 82.5mph

I think it'll be 96, before it hits a yellow.

 

Brings me back to a post elsewhere of a 10% leeway on the upper limit. Wether it actual exists or not is another matter but a possible explanation as to why 75 can become 82. Either way I'd say 100 is possible on favourable gradients but that may be chancing things too much in this day and age.

 

IF, this 10% rule actually exists, you could probably just about scrape triple figures without getting into trouble, on that basis I'll take a punt on 101MPH.

Another thing to remember is at 100MPH, your hitting the max speed for Mk1's or any other railtour stock too, only Mk3's and above in regular TOC service go faster.

 

we all wish she will reach the 100, but we shall just need to wait and see, maybe the best will be saved till last .......stoke bank maybe ????

 

Not knowing the route too well, is that possible before hitting the 75MPH restriction on Little Bytham viaduct ?, 1938 suggests yes, but 4468 didn't start pulling up till much later.

 

depends on whether dbs and network rail are willing to turn a blind eye as I'm sure the crews would be as thrilled as the passengers at the magic ton need to put dbs and network rail executives in premier dinning and ply them with champers!

 

I agree it's a big "if." Never heard anything official about the 10% rule but it's been mentioned may times over the years. Could be just an urban myth of course and you're quite right to point out the max permitted speed for railtour stock.

 

I'm going to go for 95. I felt as we went thru Doncaster good things were going to happen and it felt a little restrained (compared to earlier) when we were 88-91 range, it became obvious that was due to our double yellows that became single, and red as we moved closer...
Had it not had been, I reckon 94 maybe 95 would have been reached, but above that I don't think anyone would take the political risk... After all 90mph is what everyone wants longer term, not just in July.

Would it do a ton... I've absolutely no doubt about that,given the chance.

95 but on the last run back to KX... (Afterall it is is the last ever run, what is there to lose)...
Now this time, go into little bytham 1 minute down, not 5 minutes up..

I think I'm becoming a speed junkie as I'm thinking I may opt in for this trip too.

 

As has been posted on the forum, the fast running on the Ebor Streak was achieved running between 10% and 15% cut off. Bearing this in mind - damn Little Bytham viaduct - but no one is going for a record. The southbound leg from Newcastle could be interesting but the who would want the return to King's Cross to be an anti-climax? I suspect 94-95 mph unless some folk are quietly agreed on something else. Those little sprints up into the 90s were just far to easy. Scarily easy really.

 

The 10% is the leeway, any more than that and you can't get away with it, I think.

 

When VT did The Bristolian and more recently The Flyer there were planners from NR and FGW on board with their laptops. As Bitterns runs are probably even more high profile I should imagine that NR and East Coast planners would be on these trains, maybe ADB could let us know if they were present on Saturday.
If this is the case then maybe 95 would be about tops. That's what I've gone for in the poll.

 

I didn't see any network rail planners around, but they could have been in their civvies.., or in dining too
If they had, Doncaster York may have been different, the reason for holding us seems valid enough....
There was a train ahead of us, and we were very early and going faster than the timed speed of 75mph... Had it not been in our way our arrival in York would have been 20 -25 mins early, instead of 9.. (We got held outside York station too for a few mins as well)

I suspect that early running could be the bane of any future 90mph sprinting.... Those saved minutes / extra miles / upcoming junctions etc start racking up pretty fast at 90.. VT's method, and 2 sets of timings maybe the way to go

 

My head says 95 mph.

But my heart says that all the hype this week will see all concerned saying, OK, if all goes well on the second run, very special authority is given for a very brief spell at just over 100 mph on the third run. Down Stoke of course, it has to be there. If a badly steaming Light Pacific on ten, on much easier downgrades, (two level bits and one up grade), can get to 90 from a start with blocked tubes, bad coal and pressure back to 145 psi at 90, just over 8 miles from the start, ( one of my footplate runs, this one with 34101), then I would be somewhat surprised if an A4 in the condition that Bittern seems to be in could not top Stoke at a decent speed with water in the boiler a decent fire still in the firebox and reach 100mph in time to brake to something close(ish) to 75 mph for the viaduct restriction which I think, (but don't know for sure), is around 8 miles from the top. So my heart says a very fleeting 102 mph, with some arguing for the next ten years it was only 101 mph! LOL!

 

I wondered on Saturday if they were going for the ton - the way that Bittern was flying through Doncaster and gaining time so quickly it certainly seemed that way at the time.

As for How fast will Bittern go - well the way that she flew UP the bank (there is no doubt that Bittern is in superb condition and long may it stay that way too) people please correct me if I've got this wrong- but according to RTT - Bittern recorded Peterborough to Grantham in 23 minutes - Now from looking at the logs I have available to me - that's matching a Deltic schedule! I very much doubt that there would be many recordings of this feat being matched/beaten by any other Steam Locomotive over this same stretch (I'm open to be proved wrong and would love to see them!).

As for a maxima coming down Stoke bank - I think that they will attempt to run at or around 100 mph on the return leg (probably around the same area that Mallard achieved her legendary mark 75 years ago today) as for a Total Maxima if allowed - I'd be fairly confident that in the condition that she is in 110-115 mph is not out of the question. Of course that speed will never happen and that is only my opinion (and is also liable to break her!).

 

Peterborough Grantham was 23 minutes, we flew through Peterborough accelerating from out stop at Holme in the 60's (we were booked on the slow), after that it went into the 70's all the way, with a 78 recorded on my phone... I didn't look at my gradient profile and It didnt feel like we had a gradient.

RTT's report is here..
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/U54875/2013/06/29/advanced