Scarborough Spa Express 2013

Update from my "man on the scene." Train arrived from Holgate with steam leading the diesel. Both locos then returned to Holgate and came back onto stock with diesel leading steam.

 

Probably a reflection of the York to Scarborough section being viewed as higher risk than elsewhere (ref. also last Saturday's Coast to Coast) but this seems like a lot of faffing about for relatively little effect, and I wonder if they will continue to swap the locos around like this, presumably twice a day.

Edit - a misunderstanding - thought the train had already completed the loop when this happened.

 

Realtimetrains appears to have got a little confused by all this - currently showing the train arriving into platform 11 at York, after the loop, 89 minutes early.

 

Not the sight we were hoping for, 30 mins late leaving Normanton


York Loco Images 290613-4928.jpg by York Loco-images, on Flickr


York Loco Images 290613-4930.jpg by York Loco-images, on Flickr

 

I thought that as well, but then realised that the train hasn't actually got back to York yet and they swapped over before leaving York at the start of the day (i.e. they are going round the loop with the diesel leading).

EDIT - as shown in the above photos.

 

Had me confused too, but should have realised from the timing of the above messages. This is not what was expected: Railway Herald said last night that it would operate "with a diesel tucked inside the steam locomotive" - and that was presumably straight from WCRC.

 

I quite like those photos, regardless of which loco is in front. Nice railway images. IMHO.

And in future years it is the sort of photo that would fit well with a book about UK main line steam. "The great heatwave of 2013" etc.

But I suppose it's what each and every photographer wants to personally record. A standard steam shot, of which there are enormous numbers around, or something different.

Be good to get that combination the other way round now, to show the different way things were handled during the heatwave.

 

I'm amused that the 47 is fitted with snow ploughs! Althought I expect they remain rigged all the time, I like to imagine some put-upon WCRC fitters cursing in the heat as they re-attached them yesterday morning before leaving Carnforth.

 

I wonder if doing it this way means they are allowed to take steam to Scarborough? I had been expecting 45231 to be the pilot engine and come off at York, leaving the train continue to the coast with just the 47.

 

Realtimes showing train arrived in York to Platform 11, there is no way to get to Scarborough from there! Anyone on the ground see whats really going on?

Oh well scratch that, reported past Malton 16 mins early, who knows what's going on I might try and catch the evening circle, it might have a black engine on the front if were lucky

 

So what's the purpose of having the steam on doing nothing only wearing all the moving parts out ?
Roll on to some rain before the end of the Scarborough season.
Brian

 

Because, I strongly suspect, a majority of the passengers are not hardened steam enthusiasts and are quite happy to pay money to travel on a train that has a steam loco at or near the front. Something to take the kids and grandkids to look at. Take some "snaps" of on their mobile phones and something to talk about when they get home from their holidays.

And, all in all, have a really great day out without all the worries and neuroses over perfection that many here, (myself most definitely included), suffer if it isn't all exactly as we feel it should be.

 

Fool joe public into thinking they are actually steam hauled I Presume.

I actually saw the faffing about at York this morning with the 47 and 45231 before heading off round the circuit late as a result.

What I'm struggling to understand is why was there need for the 47 to lead ?, we all know it's powering regardless and the five would of have control of the brakes, so why wasn't the 47 pushing as has happened in many other cases, acceptable ?, all I outwardly saw was an unnecessary shunting manouvre that caused needless delay.

 

I see from another thread the locos were reversed coming back, so the Black 5 was leading but the 47 doing all the work.

Data is well spread across countless threads currently - it's hard work getting the full picture.

David

 

To update the situation, my statement, quoted by Railway Herald yesterday, was correct, in that the SSE would be 'steam + diesel' and that was how the formation was presented this morning. Unfortunately, NR Control misunderstood the intention and had refused to allow movement until diesel was piloting steam; we therefore had no choice but to run in that formation, else risk cancellation of this morning's train. I subsequently spent several lengthy telephone calls this morning to overturn this decision, hence why the return working was steam leading ('show-pony' maybe, but better than no steam at all).

NR are naturally extremely wary of fire-risk and specificly the risk imported by steam operation. Despite assumptions to the contrary, a laid-down precedure and notice period has been in operation, between NR and the steam operators, for some years (following the panic summers of the mid-90s); however, following NR 'devolution' and several years of wet, wash-out summers, these precedure have been overlooked - hence the confusion over the last couple of weeks.

WCR (and DBS, for that matter) take the situation very seriously and, together with NR, need to the balance of risk with providing the passengers their expectation of steam. Whilst not necessarily satisfying the avid readers of this site, we believe the majority of passengers will understand the position in which steam operators currently find themselves and, until the weather breaks, accept it.

JS

 

Thanks for the detailed explanation James, it's much appreciated and its great to see the train back again in whatever form. Od course you could have several dozen extra passenger per day if you could bring your other standby diesel out of the NRM where I believe she is on standby, a certain 55002? I'll vouch for 800+ people on my email list, the first public tour with KOYLI will be a major draw, we are all just waiting!

Cheers

Duncan

 

I would love to know, on any one normal main line steam train, (not such as the 90 mph runs), how many of the steam purists, (your "avid" readers of this site including me), are actually on board as paying customers. And how many are just Joe Public who are perfectly happy to see a steam loco at or near the front of the train. 5% avid, 95% Joe Public?

And how much extra work the circa 5% cause such as James to get things "right".

I do sometimes wonder if the Tour Promoters etc would be much happier to lose all of the avid market and just get on with doing their jobs of providing some sort of steam experience for Joe Public, where I suspect the vast majority of their income is. They could then totally ignore such as this section on Nat Pres and devote themselves entirely to catering for and expanding their majority customer base, whom I suspect they understand far better than we do.

Back to the SSE, if things stay changed as James has now tried very hard to do, Mackos photos above becomes quite a rarity. Good on you for taking them. They add even more to the full story of steam in summer 2013 now!

 

Somebody mentioned 55002, now that, leading, back, front, or sideways, together with a 5 or a Jubilee, would be an attractive preposition.
Or Martin Walkers 55022 doing the SSE's during the dry weather.

Well................I can dream and wish, nowt wrong with that.