Scarborough Spa Express 2013

Running with a diesel inside today - presumably as a result of yesterday's fires on the S&C. The steam ban is back, it seems.

 

46115 with 47 760 tucked inside today...

 

So the $64,000 question is, "will there be diesel involvement over the S&C on Sunday?"

 

I think it's highly likely. Given that these fires have already had an impact on the SSEs, where there is only one relatively short gradient of any note (and that in a largely urban area), it would be strange if there were not a similar impact on the line where the problems occurred, which is in open countryside and features extensive gradients.

 

Shoot there goes my £69 for the Waverley on Sunday. Double irony as its supposed to be raining.

So when its double headed steam, is the box supposed to be (a) on the front, (b) behind loco 1, (c) behind loco 2 or (d) on the back?

 

My guess would be (c).

 

Just to say that the SSE has run well so far today and to time, despite the dirty diesel!

 

Presume diesel assistance for Pendolinos from now on. No? Thought not.

 

I very rarely comment on here, but with the reintroduction today of 47760 inside on the SSE, I feel I have to put my word in. Under no fault to West Coast or DB as only working under instruction of NR, I find it very sad that some folks decision is spoiling many others enjoyment when at times its on the point of ridiculous. Looking at NR in two angles, yes I can sympathise having a 47 wherever when its 30 degrees outside when grounds like Africa to prevent trackside going up in smoke, or delaying following trains trying to attempt to put fire out. Can also be sympathised if needing to keep to time in hot spells. However anybody would think Scarborough line has been in Kenya in last few weeks with this steam embargo, its preety much flat for Christ sake! You look at Weymouth other week with 33 debacle when two controls rowing with one another and trains leave late, just no need. Fact that weve had a fair share of rain and places got flooded, obviously just a freak of nature and didn't get noticed then. The best article in any of the rail mags would be to see how NR make decisions. Were all not white as white as at times enthusiasts haven't helped the steam movement by uploading videos to youtube with titles like 'loco x sets off huge fire on line x etc' or gone blatantly in the line of fire with trespassing or getting nearly knocked down by a passing unit whilst trying to film 70013 going to ely or wherever it was. I don't know how many fires were started on S&C yesterday, but I did see one. On one particular video it shows fire at end burning and says it burned out after 5 mins, but why put it on. Just gives NR evidence to act like killjoys. Unless a passing unit saw, how would they know?? With all the hard efforts many put in to keep our enjoyment running both on mainline and preserved lines, when its done good, its something were all proud of. Look at yesterdays fellsman for what it was, a lovely recreation of 1T57 that made quite a few by the looks of it turn out to see a sight not too far off from 45 years ago. Can you imagine Sunday with a 47 behind Cromwell or triple heading on return. If NR had it their way, it would be end of steam railtour all over again. What a state were in!!

 

It seems clear from the various debates and comments here that we, on this Forum, are not experts in what type of lineside conditions can lead to fires.

And Ralphs comment above only emphasises that. To me at least.

My very personal view, both from the comfort of my study, and from my efforts, (NOT related to any railway activity), out on the moors and fells, (Cumbrian Fells recently) is that for this year NR are doing a very good job indeed of trying to at least keep a steam presence on scheduled steam trains whenever and wherever they can. In what are clearly variable conditions in many parts of the country, despite where some rain has fallen. The severe lineside/house gardens fire, (not steam influenced and cause not yet reported), near Wokingham recently after the rains had started is possibly one example of that.

They could have imposed a blanket, nationwide steam ban. That would have made life very easy for them. But they haven't.

And for lineside photographers, as I have said elsewhere, there are some interesting and fairly unusual photographic opportunities with diesels in different locations in the train formations. Or do our photographers just want to keep taking the same old 3/4 front view of a steam train puffing up a grade? And ignore the wider opportunities of how they are working in a variety of weather conditions? A record of the 2013 main line steam scene. I for one have virtually given up lineside photography, started in 1960, as I just got fed up with taking almost the same old photos of the same old locos, despite really putting my thinking cap on to try and get variety. And I see that lack of variety in virtually all the photos etc posted here, with just a few exceptions.

NR are the professionals. They have to put their money where their actions are, and unless someone here is going to step forward and genuinely underwrite the full costs of any fires caused by running any steam special alone without diesel assistance I do suggest we accept NRs decisions and try and take advantage of the different scene they are giving us.

And all this is said by someone who is a total steam freak who normally detests the sight and sound of diesel locomotives.

 

Just for the benefit of people living in the south, in Leeds we have had one good storm a couple of weeks ago lasting four hours or so plus twelve hours steady rain last Monday and that's it since the end of June. I thought it was a good decision to lift the ban on Tuesday and see what happened. It really needs a wet spell. Obviously I don't know how it's looking up in Ribblesdale and the Eden Valley but to the east of here it is if anything drier.

 

Ans as someome mentioned Kenya earlier - was the African savannah regularly torched by passing steam locos or did they just have better spark arrestors/ oil firing... ?

 

I seem to remember that further South, in South Africa, there was an area of lower density vegetation kept next to such as the Kimberley to De Aar line when it was mainly steam operated.

That line passed mainly grazing scrub, and this strip meant fires didn't spread onto it very often.

This from memory but I am fairly sure one of the drivers from De Aar told me about it once. And I do sort of recall seeing it as well.

 

That could be the difference between us Brian. You have become bored with lineside photography whereas a lot of us here at Nat-Pres are still as keen as mustard.
Nunney Castle ran last Sunday with a full rake of chocolate and cream coaches through traditional GWR territory from Bristol to Kingswear. Despite the heavy rain, the stations and overbridges were packed with well wishers and photographers. Personally, but if there had been a diesel towing the train I would have been gutted.
We accept that when the lineside is tinder dry a diesel is a necessity but please accept that some followers of steam, including the loco crews and support teams, do not want to see a diesel in the consist of the steam charter unless totally necessary. <BJ>

 

I fully accept that the diesels are not ideal. But they are keeping the trains running, and in some places, (ie your example above), those trains are purely steam and providing a superb spectacle for very many people.

 

In the various parks etc they use controlled burning to ensure nothing untoward happens. Quite a sight to look down into the Ngorongoro crater and see acres being burnt at night.
Might not be railways but proactive management none the less.
Now if only NR could be as proactive and manage their lands properly....... But god forbid the HSE would have kittens if controlled burning was suggested. Would require a fleet of fire engines on stand by just in case......

 

Well, I don't think these debates will ever end !!! I agree generally with Brian (Kent Yeti); like it or not, NR is held responsible for every little delay and problem on our packed railway network. I really would seriously challenge anyone on here to commit themselves to say that if in charge of operations, they would not follow the same procedures as NR. Of course I would prefer to see a tour as advertised, perhaps the way forward is steam in Winter only !!.

And as for East V West, we all know how very regional rain can be (the west side of Reading can have thunderstorms, while here on the East side, tinder dry. How do you judge the consequences over say a 120 mile steam tour. Regarding OLIS' mention of 'why tell them', well I know that's all good intent but we've seen in the news of many things lately where no-one has taken action on what they've seen with disastrous consequences. Prevention better than cure ??

There are also things that happen which have not been seen as preventable; remember the recent fire in Birmingham of recycle plant started by a lantern !!!! Hmmmm, didn't take much to start that eh.

Actually some of the private railways are running Diesel only during dry spells (Mid Hants aswel I believe???). Easy to say ' lets bear with it' but the good thing is, Britain has some fabulous steam engines for us to enjoy. I hope this weekends plans all go well .....Pete