65033 J21 in preservation

Evening All

I have now added photos of the sole remaining J21 now preserved 65033

65033 at Doncaster Works open day
http://tinyurl.com/mhbqpgj

65033 at Shildon getting a facelift
http://tinyurl.com/ks7azky

65033 after the cosmetic refit
http://tinyurl.com/kl4xbgx

Full collection
http://tinyurl.com/jvt4fas

Neil

 

If ever there was an engine crying out for some TLC, and an appeal for a return to steam this one is it. Nevermind anything else down south... its time attention turned north.

 

David,
You are absolutely right, it is about time that attention was turned to the J21 (and engines like it, such as the J27). For those that don’t know, 65033 has been the subject of a couple of bids to the HLF by its owning Trust, the Locomotive Conservation & Learning Trust, and each has failed. The Olympics didn’t help but behind the scenes another bid is being worked up in conjunction with the Stainmore Railway Company at Kirkby Stephen East where the locomotive will be based once restored. The revised bid will incorporate unique 1904 NER bogie tools van as an interpretation centre (museum in old money) and work has been going on behind the scenes with the HLF and a few others.

So… a bit too early to make much of an announcement in the usual areas but updates on the project will start to appear on both the LCLT and SRC websites including details of an appeal to contribute towards our match-funding. As an aside, the Stainmore line at Kirkby Stephen East used to be worked by 65033 and the collection of Gresley stock there (some of it unique) is entirely appropriate for the locomotive so it will be win-wins all round for railway heritage when it finally steams. With a bit of luck and a following wind that could be as early as 2016 but 2017 might be more likely.

Feel free to pm me if you want to know more or even get involved, or if you’ve just won the Euro millions and thought you’d help out.

All the very best,

Tobes

 

If I win the Euro's that J21 is the second phone call Im making as the first will be to buy NELPG!

In all seriousness I know there are some developments with the engine and it will be great to see it steaming once again, but all too often the focus is for engines down south with the likes of C-classes, Dukedogs, and Atlantics all springing to the memory of enthusiasts first all too often. No one seems to remember that once an entire grouping area was hived off to its own region having been the only area to re-emberge from grouping. If BR thought the NER was that important its a shame preservation hasnt followed.

 

I guess geography had a bit to do with it; if more North Eastern types had found their way to Barry then who knows what we'd have now.

 

Sadly yes, geography had a lot to do with it, but then so too did wanting the metal, copper and brass work as on the market it held value.... hence B1 61264 being sold of the Departmental list was the only one to make it to south wales. The speed at which Eastern engines were scrapped says of efficency and chasing down money that was needed, but sadly to the detrement of history. I dont begrudge the Western and Southern lot for being so lucky, its just sad that theres only one of everything left and even more so when North Eastern gets overlooked for all things Gresley... I maintain that Doncaster faffed around with designs for express engines, and made about a hundred. Darlington got on with the business of running the railway and made a damn sight more, which is overtly symplistic but normally arouses interest. That debate is for somewhere else.

While everyone loves the Schools class, C-Class and Terriers, Duke Dogs and T something-or-others, it would be nice if attention turned to one little bespoke engine that never grabbed the headlines, worked tirelessly throughout its career and worked perhaps one of the hardest routes on the network for nigh on 40 odd years. Everyone loves a big engine, everyone rallies around some southern engine, but for once this northern gem deserves the TLC and cash that flows through all the accounts of the 'miracles' from south wales. The fact that some down south would disagree is what annoys me most. My verbal arsenal is primed, but with 65033 the way it is it needs all the defenders of its faith it can get.

 

There's some slightly selective views of history going on here! There are, off the top of my head, 33 pre-grouping SR locos preserved, and only two came from Barry (the two Urie S15s). Six were preserved by the state (e.g. the NRM or its forerunners). The other 27 were privately preserved by individuals or societies, starting withe the SLS saving "Gladstone".

Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see any loco restored, and particularly pre-grouping ones. But if there is a dearth of, for example, ex-NER locos, I wonder why that is? It certainly wasn't to do with geographical distance from Barry - whatever the benefits of Barry to GWR, LMS, later SR and BR standard designs, it had next to nothing to do with why so many pre-grouping SR locos survived.

(And interestingly, there are apparently 26 pre-group LNER locos preserved, including 10 from the NER - which is more locos than from the SECR, and more variety in types than from LBSCR and SECR combined. So the north isn't doing that badly in preservation terms! In fact, it looks rather well represented in preservation relative to the south )

Tom

 

If Ive got selective views your well and truely skewing statistics to suit what you want to believe. Half of the NER preserved engines were already preserved owing to the LNER museum set up as a forerunner to the NRM. Engines such as the D17, 1275, 910 and the E5 were the backbone of what became the national collection. It truely started turning national when Truro was added to the list long before anyone dreamt up the idea of forming a collection. So with those out of the way, thats an addition of around 5 from NELPG and the J21. In that light isnt not as good as it looks, nor is it when the Eastern regions continued history is taken into account theres entire classes that have become extinct. Even an A1 had to be rebuilt but there is no J39, L1, V1 or V3, and B17 to name a few. Even a G5 has to be rebuilt...

Even if in terms of pregrouping most came from individuals and societies, the fact is that counting all those thats survive thats still 3 Southern heaps for one Northern workhorse.

Sorry but thats just rubbish. Most pregrouping southern engines were confined to backwaters and replaced by grouping designs and standards. The opposite happened up north, with engines like the J21 being needed because designs to replace them didnt work as well. Only the BR Standard 2 and 3 came to work alongside the J21 over stainmore. Funny how of all the BR standards that are left, the BR standard 3 needs to be rebuilt too as those were predominantly up north... thats not a co-incidence.

NER engines that were built just prior to grouping worked until the end of steam. The Q6 fleet was virtually unscathed till the end, likewise others like J27. Theres only one of each left thanks to NELPG and if there were a Barry of the north east, row upon row of those would have been there alongside the odd standard and A1. Sadly, scrappies wanted the cash so the engines were cut up straight away.

Tom[/quote]

So, you say 10 when really its more like 5... but more than the SECR, and LBSwhereever.... that might be true, but what every one down south forgets the NER was a region, not just a company. It was the only region to remerge in BR nationalisation because of its significance. While southern companies might have been successful in their own right, it would be more apt to compare the NER and the engines that worked in it afterwards against the southern, western and rest of eastern, due to NER's volume, workload, network and virtual devolved nature even during the LNER. In that truer sence of where the region should be seen, its understanding by wider enthusiasts, bodies to support its perservation and the amount that remains due to one reason or anther can only be described as derisory. Hence its all the more important to return that J21 to steam before anything else down south, east or west.

 

Check your late 1950s shed book, David. 6 Standard Class 4 2-6-0s were shedded at West Auckland in the late 1950s. Also, there were 6 at Kirkby Stephen.

 

Yes Im well aware of that. My point is that as with an engine such as that... you never see or hear of those standard 4s that worked up north. Its always a 4MT from the south, one maybe over the S+DJR that gets the plaudits. Never mind...

 

Another thread hijacked by David to whine about Southern bias in preservation.

 

Indeed. I thought I came on here to have a debate about railway preservation, but apparently instead I entered a forgotten battlefield of the 1980s class war.

Oh well, each to their own. As an enthusiast interested in the wide variety of our railway heritage, I look forward to David - who evidently feels passionately about this loco - keeping us all updated with how his efforts in fundraising are going, as I assume that is what he is doing even now. Afterall, all the locomotives I have any connection with have got restored because hundreds of like-minded people have dug deep into their pockets to see them restored, and I don't suppose in that respect the a J21 is much different from a C or an H. North and south doesn't come into it...

Tom

 

Tom,
David is nothing to do with the J21 but rest assured I will be keeping you updated in the New Year on what the immediate future is for the loco.
All the best,

Toby

 

Thanks Toby - look forward to hearing about it!

Tom

 

Chums,
sorry it's been a while but you know how these things are; the work get frantically done and then all quiet with nothing to report or share for several months. However...... ta da! From the Stainmore Railway Company's Facebook page yesterday:

‘The Cumbrian Victorian Locomotive Experience’ wins Heritage Lottery Fund support

The Kirkby Stephen East (KSE) – based Locomotive Conservation and Learning Trust (LCLT) has received initial support from the Heritage Lottery Fund (HLF) for ‘The Cumbrian Victorian Locomotive Experience’, it was announced today. The project aims to restore two unique railway vehicles, a Victorian steam locomotive and an Edwardian stores van which will be based at KSE station in Cumbria.

Development funding of £38,500 has also been awarded to help the LCLT progress their plans to apply for a full grant at a later date.

The project aims to return unique North Eastern Railway J21 locomotive No 65033 to steam and develop a Heritage and Interpretation Centre within an Edwardian railway stores van and the enclosed platform area at KSE that will engage with the local Cumbrian population and provide a fulcrum for local heritage and volunteer activities. The locomotive and the interpretation area will underpin a robust and innovative engagement strategy, activity plan and events programme.

The locomotive, built in 1889, the ‘Stainmore Survivor’, is the sole remaining example of over 200 members of its type and should no longer exist having been withdrawn from service twice (in 1939 & 1962) and which was finally saved in June 1968, 4 days before it was due to be removed for scrap. Although very much regarded as an unglamorous workhorse, it famously hauled King George VI to Kirkby Stephen and, on 4th December 1942, took Winston Churchill on his visit to the Battle School at Barnard Castle. Having spent much of its life working the line over Stainmore and through KSE, the project is of great heritage significance.

The stores van is also a unique survivor dating from 1904 that was used to transport equipment (with stoves and living compartments for the men who travelled with it) to locations such as KSE which had no road access. The LCLT is keen to ensure that the story of this less glamorous side of steam railway operation is not forgotten, as well as explaining the locomotive’s unique story through the lives of the people that it touched for nearly 130 years.

LCLT chairman, Julian Birley said: “We’re absolutely thrilled that the Heritage Lottery Fund has supported our project and particular credit must be paid to trustees Toby Watkins and Mike Thompson who have worked tirelessly with the HLF to develop the bid for this project which is vital in telling and preserving a unique part of this country’s railway heritage. The J21 and the bogie stores van are of great importance and deserve to be shared with the nation. Furthermore, the opportunity to make a real impact at KSE station excites us very much and we are delighted to be playing a part in their emergence as the major tourist attraction for the area. We are also most grateful for the superb assistance and advice that the HLF have provided us throughout the application process and without whose support this project simply would not be possible.”

 

Fantastic news, this is really fabbo! The big engines always get the headlines but we should always remember its not all Race 'oss'es you have to have your work 'oss'es too! If 60163's the band, then 65033 is defo the coach driver, makes sure everything turns up on time!

 

Fantastic news!

 

Good news indeed!

 

Excellent news! You can't beat a pre-grouping 0-6-0 - the workhorses of the railways.

Tom

 

Tom,
Absolutely; in fact I recall our submission saying something to that effect