BR Standard class 6 No. 72010 'Hengist' and Clan Discussion Thread

Thanks Sheff. Font size adjusted

 

A quieter week this week with three casting jobs waiting to be poured at Norton Cast products :

• Combined frame stretcher / spring hangar number 2 (between the leading and intermediate driving wheel sets)​
• Rear Combined stretcher / brake support stretcher​
• 6 off horn guides​

The horn guides are critical path as they are required before the frame cutting process can begin to ensure the cutting and machining can be completed as one job.
The pieces that will be used to create the pattern for the third (and last!) combined frame stretcher nears completion, look out for a separate article on the website next week about the pattern making progress and how one pattern has made the three unique castings.
As previously mentioned the working parties will commence on Saturday 7th September. All members are welcome and members of the Engineering Committee and Council of Management will be present. The first working parties will concentrate on sorting the racks of components we have in stock along with repainting the cab structure.

 

Count me in on the working parties, but maybe not the first one, as our holidays start early next day.

 

Thanks Sheff.
It will be good to catch up.

 

Hi all
During a very productive Council of Management meeting yesterday a motion was passed to search for a PR officer.
This role would primarily involve liaising with local and national media (TV, Radio, newspapers) and creating a media strategy for the project so you will be working closely with the Commercial Director and IT officer.
Do you fit this description and would you like to get involved at the core of a new build steam project? If so we would like to hear from you. Please send me a message with your contact details and we'll be in touch.

Thanks

 

Doing it well yourself Dave in the interim...

 

Thanks. It's Bob doing all the hard work on the press side, I just look after the digital news

 

Route availability.
A Clan is Essentially the same size as Britannia. with scope perhaps to reduce the height by at least 1/2 an inch to below 13Ft ( Cab height is 12ft 11.1/4inch) and perhaps width to 8 ft 81/2. just a little less. Together with its max. axle weight of just over 19 Tonnes are there any particular routes available to a Clan that other Pacifics/ larger 4-6-0's cannot access ?

 

Great to see the good steady progress being made on this project, I hope for all the best. I'm curious though, in terms of performance and capability, how does the Clan stack up when compared to other steam locos like for example, it's bigger cousin, the Britannia Class?

 

If a Brittanias big 4 Near equivalents would be; Castle, Lord Nelson or WC/BoB, A3, Rebuilt Scot....
a Clans would therefore be County, King Arthur, V2 , Jubilee/Patriot....

No doubt a raft of partisan disapproval will follow...
Looking forward to a mini 'Loco exchanges' with the Patriot and County in the future. I'd fancy the Clans chances ....

 

I've read again "Mendips Engineman" and on page 62, Pete Smith states "The 1955 building programme featured five Clans for the Southern Region; 72010 - 14.
Three of the locos were scheduled to replace the Bulleid Pacifics then allocated to Bath. The batch of five weren't built because the first ten were less successful than hoped".

Wikipedia however states 15 more were to have been built; the five for the Southern Region and ten more for Scotland. The five for the Southern Region were postponed due to a continuing steel shortage.

If the five had been built and three had gone to the S&D, any suggestions where the other two might have been allocated?

 

Bournemouth for use at the summer peak

 

Indeed, Lot 242 was to be 72010-72024.

 

The Same order also had another batch of Britannias on it which we're also delayed and subsequently cancelled, so its doubtful the Clans initial performance was a factor in this . Bearing in mind that post the Blastpipe cap mod nothing further was done with the Clans when , if more was required of them, a double chimney was an inexpensive next step, Reboilering with a Brit boiler was also available as an option. The Clan was relatively surefooted for a pacific so the S&D trial would have been interesting...

 

A quiet time this last couple of weeks while we await the casting of the second combined stretcher / spring hangar bracket casting, the casting of the rear stretcher / brake cylinder support and the new horn guides. We are at the mercy of the foundry for these items and hopefully we will have some good news soon.

In other news, the first members working party will be this weekend at our midlands base. This is a members only event I'm afraid due to the nature of the site. This will be the start of regular working parties. Our frames appeal also continues to raise some much needed funds which will be put to good use to pay for Ian Riley & Son (Bury) and Stephenson Engineering (Manchester) to assemble the frames next year.

If you can help by donating to the appeal, donating at no cost to yourself via easyfundraising.org.uk or by joining the project (single adult membership from £15 per year) it will all be gratefully received and put to very good use.

Dave

 

Referring to class8mikado's comments above, and reading what Cox has to say in his book "British Railways Standard Steam Locomotives", the Scottish motive power people didn't appear to have any great concerns about the Clan's performance, particularly after the reduction of the blastpipe orifice from 5.25 inches to 5 inches, and the increased blast that provided.
Cox also comments that a Clan had over a ton less adhesive weight than a Class 5 4-6-0, and that a "Jubilee" --a class six comparator--had 60 tons adhesive weight against the Clan at just under 57 tons. Cox comments therefore that over the hilly Scottish routes the Clans worked, perhaps drivers were somewhat cautious in case slipping happened.
Cox also mentions that although the Clans were originally intended for the Perth to Inverness line, they never actually worked there, not due to any shortcomings, but rather an ample stud of recently built LMS class 5's had been built up, and there was no justification for fitting the Clans with the tablet exchange apparatus they would have needed for working north of Perth.
Freeman Allen says the case for the class 6 4-6-2 was "never compelling". There had also been a proposal for a class 5 4-6-2 to replace such classes as the LNER B1, LMS Black Five,GWR County and Hall, but in the end class 5 construction was decided to be further 4-6-0 engines, the 73xxx.
However there did appear to be a case for a more poweful locomotive on some weight-restricted lines, underlined by the performance of 34004 "Yeovil" on the Highland main line during the 1948 locomotive exchanges, when a load of 380 tons ( compared to an unassisted Black 5 load of 255 tons) was well handled.
Freeman Allen mused with hindsight what would have happened if Scottish crews had got their hands on rebuilt West Country Pacifics up there.
The "mixed" reputation of the Clan class was highlighted in 1958 when 72009 was allocated to Stratford for a month's trial on Liverpool St-Clacton expresses. Crews were reported as having to "hammer" the loco to keep touch with the schedule, and thought 72009 no better than a B1 in good condition.
Similarly in the late 1950's when the Midland Division was desperate for higher powered engines to work accelerated express schedules from St Pancras to the East Midlands and Yorkshire they did not find the Class 6 Clan Pacifics suitable as the answer to their needs.

46118

 

I have read 46118's comments with great interest. I would refer readers to the 'History' page of the project website which gives other information about the use, performance and activities of some members of the class.
It does appear that the engines were generally found to be good reliable steeds, once the teething problems were sorted out,which obviously took some time considering that the engines were never tested in the Rugby testing house, afterall that was only a comparatively recent facility having been completed in 1948, yes, I know some regions had their own before then. When crews were given the right engine for the right task they were successful and economical. How often did a B1 manage to maintain the schedule of an A3?
Given the current situation with coal supplies, cost of maintenance, ability to travel greater distances without watering the use of such an engine on mainline duties, when performance is not the be all and end all, this project will provide a modern addition to the mainline stud, without the problems of historical mis-treatment, and yet still be perfectly at home on the medium/ long heritage lines which now are spread throughout the country. Indeed, some of the shorter lines with more onerous profiles could be interesting challenges.

 

The inaugural steam working from Skipton to Bolton Abbey perhaps !

 

Your final paragraph is the reason why in 1958 the LMR took the two Britannia's 70004/14 from the SR and effectively swapped them for two Standard 5's, 73042/3. As Stew' Lane and B/Arms had plenty of Bulleids the two Brit's were never really needed.

 

Indeed, and Freeman Allen comments on why it was ever thought necessary to build five "Clan" class for the Southern, "Hengist" through to "Firebrand", when the Southern had plenty of Bulleid light Pacifics.

46118