LMS wagon grey paint

Hi all
Does anyone know a suitable RAL number for LMS Wagon grey paint?
Ollie

 

This any use?

http://www.stephen.hull.btinternet.co.uk/bs381c.html

 

The LMS was basically the same as the post nationalisation details as shown below

B.T.C. Spec. 32A For Covered Vehicles & Vans
Item
13 Canvass Roof Paint.
14 .....................Finishing Paint.
20 Stone Colour for Brakevans & Interiors above 3' 6"...........B.S. 381C 361 Light Stone
16 Freight stock Red Brakevans & for lower walls up to 3' 6" & external body on fitted & piped vehicles……….BS 381C 446 Red Oxide
30 Freight stock Grey for unfitted vehicles...................B.S. 381C 693 Aircraft Grey.
75 Pale cream emulsion for interior wood surfaces of containers and vans..........B.S. 2660 4-056 of 1955. (Nearest B.S 4800 10 C 31.)

 

Not so. LMS grey was mixed locally by lobbing in a bit of black, a bit of white and possibly a bit of anything else they had lying around, so the shade varied considerably between wagons.

 

That's my understanding - the colour was called "smudge" and basically consisted of mixing up the dregs in the paintshop, so varied considerably between batches. (Source: from memory, from Bob Essery's book on Midland wagons; I assume LMS practice didn't change much).

Also, paints that contained lead (which I think would be in the white pigment) reacted with sulphur in the air (common in industrial locations) to form a black pigment of lead sulphide, so in any case the grey would fairly rapidly darken when exposed to polluted air. Period photos of trains with numerous LMS wagons showed that there was considerable variation in hue between very pale and very dark grey.

Tom

 

That may have been the case way back when, but the railway companies started to use standard colours around the early thirties for reasons of economy. If what you say was true every single wagon in a train would be a different colour and it wouldn't have been possible to have a corporate image.

 

That would be when the painter or labourer in the paint shop then standardised his guesstimates by using a recipe of 1 tin white to 2 tins black or whatever.
The colour of every wagon would be different anyway due to ageing, dirt and different wagon works involved.

 

In 1936 the LMS changed from grey to bauxite for its wagon fleet (nothing to do with type of brakes fitted, that was a BR idea) so I would say that the above was true for any LMS grey wagon. I have one to paint in LMS grey myself, one day! With white lettering, so presumably it can't be too light a shade.