Bluebell Motive Power

If you were someone in the Bluebell's commercial dept who could smell several £ks in revenue from a few gala appearances and multiple photo-charters perhaps? [But don't get too excited David - I'm only hypothesizing! ;-)]

 

One issue no-one has picked up on is the opportunity cost of a repaint, particularly when one isn't actually needed for protective reasons.

Firstly, a repaint - even into black - might take several weeks to carry out. At the moment, we simply don't have any engine that we can spare for several weeks while it is repainted. I suspect we don't want to revive the old LBSCR tradition of rushing locos in undercoat into frontline service for the summer peak, before retrieving them at the end of summer so the paint job could be finished!

Secondly, there is the question of labour. There were some recent photos showing the signwriting on 847's tender. The person doing it, apart from being skilled in that art, happens to be a machinist who does many jobs around the workshop for a variety of locos. With the current pressure on locos, would such a person be better employed on a repaint that wasn't actually needed, or more urgent machining tasks? OK, there is more than one person who can carry out either of those tasks, but everything done that is non-essential is taking resource from more essential tasks. Personally, I'd put an unneeded repaint - even if the materials had been externally funded - as a diversion. (By contrast, when 9017 was repainted, it was done at Llangollen, so didn't actually absorb any Bluebell resource except the period the loco was unavailable for traffic, which was at a time of less pressure).

So my personal view is never say never, but I doubt such things are very high up anyone's priority list at the moment until the loco situation improves.

And just to prove I'm not biased: when Beachy Head is finished, even though I am not a photographer, I'll be the first to chip in to any fund to get her repainted - out of black.

Tom

 

It was reported on here ( by one of the Betton Grange people ) that there were 9 photo charters with 9017 at Llangollen ( there have been others since at the Bluebell and the SDR. The M7 is in lined BR black for the first time in preservation and there are 3 photo charters with it this Autumn. There have been numerous photo charters with 31806 ( MidHants, Churnet Valley, Severn Valley and Swanage). Some locos have not been in BR colours in preservation such as the H.

Please note I not one for everything in BR Black I still like locos in other colours - Such as the Radial Tank in LSWR colours because that is how I remember it when it was last running and I prefer the E4 as it is now.

 

30053 has been in lined black before though but its the first time it has the later crest as it had the early one before.

Personally I'm happy to have the locos as they are.

 

Which is less authentic, a train with a mismatch of liveries that don't go together on vehicles that probably never served together in a formation that was never used and which are painted in a way they probably were painted at some time in their long lives, or a loco and train all in a contemporary matching livery, even if some of the vehicles didn't ever carry that livery? And my answer is, treated as a whole, which is the only way you should consider it outside of a museum of individual exhibits, they are both as good or as bad as each other. At the moment that's not a currently fashionable view, but fashions change and I for one don't care much for fashion anyway. Aesthetically a set of coaches all in the SECR colour scheme (preferably lettered Bluebell or whatever, rather than SECR for none SECR stock) behind an SECR livery locomotive is to my mind infinitely preferable to what would be an authentic BR livery - ie a ton of grime with a layer of fag ash in all the smoking carriages. You may think that looks crap, well that's your opinion. My opinion is anything's better than the only recorded livery that on many engines actually looked better obscured by dirt...

 

Oh I completely agree. If I won the lottery and had any say in the matter a loco such as the H could spend approx 1/3 of its ticket in SECR colours, 1/3 in Southern livery and the remainder in BR – variety is the spice of life after all. But - back in the real world - as Tom very rightly says there are all sorts of practicalities that mean unnecessary repaints are a distraction that the bluebell probably can’t afford, at least in our current situation.

It would be nice to think though – given that one of our supposed aims as a preservation society is to educate visitors in the rich variety of our railway history – that the H could change colour (be it to a SR or BR hue) at some point during its ticket*. It probably doesn’t make sense for all the reasons Tom outlines, but then again the Heritage Railway movement probably wouldn’t be where it is today if common sense and practicality always prevailed!

* Although not just yet please – would be nice to see the H in her current livery hauling a few more of these first though J
http://www.flickr.com/photos/28850185@N04/9596081527/

Cheers,
Jon

 

He was happy to lend his spare time to help out with the BR transformation of 55 last year (for a suitable fee mind !)

 

I agree with that Jon. I would like to see the H on the K&ESR ( but only when we can spare it for a week or so) with there recently repainted Birdcage coach ( see http://www.national-preservation.com/threads/secr-birdcage-brake-k-esr-61.119104/ ) and their other SECR coaches.

 

Some interesting arguments for and against with monies raised for charters, the practicality of being out for a repaint etc etc.

Using the 9017 example, I think it's livery is largely irrelevant on the Bluebell as there's next to no stock that matches it anyway, though I still regret (and probably always will now), I never got the chance to see it being piloted by 7822 and hauling blood and custards at Llangollen, seeing as that seems to be the holy grail of a Cambrian recreation, though crossing the Dee on maroon suburbans wasn't half bad.

 

How old are you?!

Whatever its faults (and no engine can be held responsible for its own birthplace, even if that is Swindon ...) the Dukedog is clearly a useful engine for us. It also had a significantly big overhaul to its frames last time round, and extensive p&v work more recently. So while it may be a bit on the back burner at the moment, I think it is inconceivable that it won't rise to the head of the overhaul queue in due course, given our long-term need for medium engines and the fact that it should be in reasonably good condition. It's likely 65 will be next and probably B473 soon as well, but the C class only has about three or four years left, and even the H class will go out of traffic sooner or later. Given the known complexity of a restoration of 488, that doesn't leave too many medium engines, so I can easily imagine 9017 being worked on within a decade, if not sooner. And assuming that is the case, no reason to think it wouldn't also go out on loan during its next period in traffic if there was interest from other lines and assuming our own fortunes revive sufficiently.

Tom

 

Think you misunderstand me Tom, I'm not having a dig, more saying that all the elements never seemed to come together at the same time, namely two suitable loco's in ticket together at the same time, with the right livery and stock etc, it came very close but I don't think it actually happened sadly.

The scene I described seems quite tricky to pull off it seems.

 

Oh, I thought you were thinking that you'd never see the Dukedog running again in your lifetime!

I guess if you are trying to line up any specific combination of engines, rarity of one of those engines (there is only one Dukedog...) will always make it more complex. I'd quite fancy seeing an N class mogul banking an all-Pullman train with observation car and a unrebuilt SpamCan up front on a big steep hill, but that's going to require significant alignment of stars!

Tom

 

It would look good with the lounge car set 3 blood and custard mark 1's seen here with 3205 on Jon Bowers photo charter earlier this year http://paulsimpson.zenfolio.com/p424123281/h5faf149a#h5faf149a

 

Out of curiosity - what carriages would have run on the DN&S pre-war? I believe some Dukedog's would have run on that line - would they have come up against Maunsell coaching stock?

Tom

 

Very much enjoyed my first trip on the line behind 45231 yesterday, she sounded great on the new extension. The line was very busy with families many were from our kids school so the Kids for a Quid must be working.

 

My video from today's rail tour and service trains.

 

Is that genuinely the plan for 499? If so, I shall have to visit the MHR rather more frequently than now! Whatever the livery, a Urie S15 is probably the single loco currently under overhaul that I am most looking forward to on any railway, but to have it in LSWR livery would truly be the icing on the gateau!

Marginally OT: I was talking to an ex-Nine Elms driver a while back about the big old Urie and Drumond 4-6-0s - "the cabs were so high clouds used to form under the roof" The later Maunsell developments had the cut-down cabs and boiler fittings to fit the SR composite loading gauge. Apparently at speed, the first thing that happened with the big water cart tenders was that all the coal walked out of the tender and deposited itself in a heap by the fire hole door, from where you could then shovel it into the fire...

Tom

 

According to the current issue of Steam Railway 499 - LSWR, 828 SR Maunsell Green 506 Southern Wartime Black then BR Black.

It states that " the society intends to cause a stir with no 499 - by restoring it to original condition not seen for a century". There is an appeal for 499 see www.urieloco.co.uk