The great photo charter debate

I sometimes wonder how much money is raised for a loco by running photo charters - do the loco owners get more out of it than a regular steaming fee? Given that most overhauls seem to cost more than the loco has earned it would seem that the owners are probably losing out.

 

From a loco owners perspective there is in my experience nothing to be gained by photo charters above the standard steaming fee, the host railway and the photographers are the only ones who benefit.

 

From a wagon owner's perspective there is nothing to be gained by photo charters other than increased wear and tear! At least you get a steaming fee... ;-)
Mind you, it does allow you to justify having the wagon there in the first place.

 

But it's a steaming fee the owner wouldn't have got otherwise. As long as the pricing is right it's all added income.

 

I doubt many loco owners charge a realistic steaming fee. If they did, most railways couldn't afford it. That's why ancillary fund raising is do important to many owning groups.

 

You could argue that the requests of charter participants for black smoke, safety valves lifting, stop start, engine hot then cools while the lighting conditions change etc adds more wear and tear to the loco in a way that normal passenger service wouldn't.
Ivo Peters, Derek Cross, Colin Gifford, Paul Riley etc just photographed the moment as it happened back in the day and got some phenomenal results. Why can't todays photographers with far superior equipment do the same sort of thing and charter a train to run from a to b and capture the moment instead of insisting on countless runpasts in the same few locations and 30 plus people all ending up with the same pictures?

 

Because they aren't in the same league as Ivo Peters, Derek Cross, et al. From the little I've had to do with private charters, most seem to be of the point and shoot brigade.

 

Oh dear. It's "knock the photographer" time again.
If you think that requests for smoke are something new, think again. Photographers did that back in the days of steam believe me. As for the increased wear and tear of a charter, I did say "if the pricing is right."
Yes Ivo and co. did take some great photographs but they had steam countrywide, 24/7, 365 days a year so had far more opportunities to fire the shutter than we have today and could return to a favourite location several times until they considered they got it right. As for photographing the moment "as it happened," that's true to a certain extent but their results would rarely happen by accident. Knowing the lie of the land, angle of light etc. would be taken into consideration when planning the shot.
So what if 30 people get the same shot? As long as the individual is happy with his what's the problem? They won't all be the same anyway.
Charter their own train? You're having a laugh surely? You do realise that the photographers you mention had BR line side passes don't you? You can imagine NR's answer to a request for similar access nowadays.
If the railways and loco owners are happy for photo charters to take place and photographers are prepared to pay good money to support them, where's the problem?

 

I'm sorry but I can think of some current photographers whose work match that oh those above. And there's nothing wrong with the point and shoot brigade. They pays their money the same as the rest.
I think the telling word in your diatribe is "little".

 

In the end, it's a commercial decision between railway and photographer. No-one complains about a wedding special, but actually, if Mr and Mrs A. White-Dress want to charter an engine and carriages for their daughter's wedding and fill it with their friends; or if Mr SLR Shutter wants to do likewise and invite his colleagues to view the same train from the lineside, what's the difference? Provided it is paid for, it doesn't matter a great deal whether all the people are on the train watching the countryside, or in the countryside watching the train...

Whether the actual fee represents a fair commercial return for the incurred wear and tear is a valid point; however, you could argue that about any train, not just photo charters. I suspect Spamcan is right in that hire fees are too low, and the shortfall is made up by fundraising efforts. But that is not unique to photo charters.

Personally, I'm not a fan of the kind of clag and so on that some photographers ask for - it smacks of bad enginemanship to me. But I put that down to photographers asking for the wrong thing, and in the end, they are paying, so provided it doesn't cause actual damage, it's their look out. After all, to take another example - film companies often ask for all sorts of weird and wonderful combinations of stock; it causes lots of harumphing and guffawing on fora such as this when a BR loco pulls a train set in 1942, but on the other hand, it pays the bills. (Camelot thanks you for your generosity...) I'm also not much of a fan of the intricate recreations showing the 7.53 Little Snoring to Much Muddling local as it was on 2 October 1957, complete with accurate portrayal of stock, reporting number and carefully applied soot stain to recreate one of the seminal photos of that day originally taken by the fêted post-war photographer the Reverend Box-Brownie - I tend to look at such photos and then look at the FB rail and lack of telegraph lines and the illusion is lost. But again - each to their own. I prefer photos that recreate a more generic scene, maybe with well-placed human interest; or else photos that are simply visually stunning regardless of the "realism" or not. But that's just me, and I'm not paying....

Tom

 

This has all escalated rather from whether taking an engine out of a hard-pressed running fleet simply to repaint it into something new, when it doesn't really need repainting, is too much to ask, hasn't it?

 

Not the first thread to wander off down a little alley, and it won't be the last - it's how conversation goes! I'm sure we'll be back to talking about Bluebell-Motive-Power-proper in due course...

Tom

 

The lineside would have been a lot clearer as well, so more potential locations.

 

It's also illegal so (1) they shouldn't ask for it and (2) the Railway shouldn't supply it. Clean Air Act 1993.

 

You make some good points. At the end of the day it's personal choice. When I get the chance I enjoy my steam railway photography, be it scheduled services or photographic charter. Live and let live I say.

 

If you'd like to find me a suitable unobstructed length of embankment anywhere near Birmingham for a panned shot, I'd be happy to oblige

I'd love to try more different shots, but it's harder than you'd think to find a suitable time/place, short of living on a preserved line, waiting for the weather, sun direction and wind etc etc to be right.

If people want to look down their nose at photters, go right ahead, just be sure to remind us which railway/society your involved with so I can avoid making donations to it, as surely if you don't like photters, that means you don't want their money, your not a hypocrite..... are you ?

And I'm talking generally before anyone think I'm singling Steve out for assassination.

 

Well said Spamcan81. It would be a boring world if we all done the same thing. There's lots of different aspects to railway preservation and photography is a very interesting part of our hobby in my opinion.