Bluebell Motive Power

The H hauled the vintage set all by itself a couple of weekend ago. Or at least PTI page said it did.

 

Indeed. When the vintage set is the Mets+4 wheelers, it is easily within the capacity of the H class, and has similar seating capacity to a six coach Mark 1 + Bulleid set. Which probably explains why that set has had so much use this year just in regular service.

Tom

 

What about the USA tank Tom? Has anyone actually remembered you've still got it?

(runs for cover....)

 

I know that the shed master has a soft spot for it and would love to have it back in traffic!

In reality though it will just have to wait its turn as there are many other similar locomotives which fulfil the medium locomotive/shunting roll.

 

With respect Tom I think you are missing the point here. The fact that you have up to 250 people wanting to board the 10.45 at EG should tell you that it is far too late to be starting from that end of the line. On the GCR the first train from Leicester North is at 10.10 and is the return working of the 09.40 DMU from Loughborough, the first steam train is the 10.00 from Loughborough and leaves Leicester North at 10.45, so the first steam train is similar to yours (actually a little later) but the first train from the far end is that bit earlier. That first DMU is never particularly busy but it does allow a more sensible first train time from the far end of the line. And when it gets back to Loughborough, the DMU crews usually move onto another job, like loco restoration or whatever.

You might also find that the ability to reach Sheffield Park earlier than 11.30 by train (and stay for more than about 4 hours) might even help with your volunteer problem...!

Based on your current timetable, I would run this theoretical DMU up non-stop at about 9.15 (either that or it could even start from somewhere up the line to keep fuel costs down), to form a 10.00 departure from EG, crossing with the first up steam train at Kingscote and arriving at SP at about 10.50. With a bit of clever shuffling of train prep duties, maybe the same guard could even be able to take the 11.00 departure out. Most of the passengers would want to look around the loco sheds so are more likely to hang around and spend money for an hour and a bit, than jump straight on the first steam train back, although the option is there.

There are all sorts of reasons why this might or might not be a good idea, and might or might not work... but surely it can do no harm to think about trying it?

Phil

 

We'll see what happens next year (in terms of a timetable I mean, not in terms of a permanent DMU!) This year was always going to be experiemental to see what worked, what didn't, so there may well be timetable changes in the light of experience. That may or may not include an earlier start, more frequent service, fill-in train using the afternoon WR engine etc. There have been lots of ideas discussed everywhere from lobby upwards, but until we see the timetable we won't know. Certainly in preference to a DMU (and it is worth reading 21B's post above), I'd prefer that, if we wanted an early train, we used the afternoon WR / GA engine to provide it - it would be in steam anyway, so not much marginal cost to provide the additional service; the crew would already be rostered and still wouldn't go over their hours; and there would be no complexity of having to have crew and fitters trained in a different form of traction.

Tom

 

As I recall it requires a pretty significant amount of work to be done on it.

 

Tom, yes I did note 21B's post, all I will say is that you can probably quote whatever statistics you prefer to make whatever case you like for or against a DMU (and I would quite understand why it would be unpaletable to a sizeable proportion of the Bluebell membership - I'm not trying to cause trouble, just to 'think outside the box' a bit). All I can say is that I've been a GCR volunteer for 25 years now and in all of that time, with the exception of a period after the 127 fell apart and before we bought the 101s, they have always worked the first train of the day on a regular basis. They clock up enough miles in the year that the running fee pretty much pays for ongoing maintenance and restoration (subject of course to the odd appeal amongst the units' members for bigger projects like the buffet car), the 101 pairing have been ultra-reliable (subject of course to a couple of stalwart volunteers doing routine maintenance) (and although it did once sit down with locked-solid wheelsets in the middle of a gala, but we'll gloss over that!), and the railway keeps running the units, so presumably ticket sales justify this. I don't have actual figures, but I can't believe we'd still be doing it if it didn't pay its way.

I realise that the GCR and Bluebell are very different railways, operationally as well as in terms of the image they portray, but I am thinking from more of a practical viewpoint than an historically perfect one. Your idea of using the WR engine might be an alternative, but you would probably need higher passenger numbers on that first train to justify the fuel costs.

Alan's point is quite pertinent though. You're only an hour from Victoria, and people in London commuter land are well used to getting out of the house by 7am... there might even be a market for an even earlier train serving breakfast baps, at least in the summer...

 

Duplicate post, dodgy internet grumble grumble please ignore / delete!

 

I don't think an 09.00 departure from Pickering to Whitby has proved to be a problem in terms of passenger, sorry, customer resistance but it was more dictated by the timetable and the need to clear the Esk Valley Line by 11.20 than passenger preference. Interweaving with the Norther T/T is a big restriction on train times. When the second platform at Whitby becomes operational that first train from Pickering will drop back to 09.40, which I suspect will be more passenger friendly. This will be followed by a 10.15 & 11.15 to Grosmont only so, if you want to go to Whitby in the morning, that first train is really your only choice. There will also be a 10.10 from Whitby to better cater for passengers travelling from the seaward end of the line.

 

As I say, wait until next year to see how, if at all, the timetable changes.

Two other data points though:

Firstly, as far as I am aware, our major traffic still starts from SP. Maybe that will change in time, and most of the increase in traffic this year has been from EG, but as far as I am aware, ticket sales at SP still outweigh those at EG. Of course, point taken that it would still be nice to have a big train ready to depart EG a bit earlier than 10.45.

But that brings the second issue, which is that our MPD is at the wrong end of the line for EG! Diesel or steam, that is unlikely to change. There isn't space at HK to permanently build even a sub-shed of SP; West Hoathly would probably have planning issues; Kingscote would definitely have planning issues; East Grinstead has no space. So whatever time we plan to run a train from EG, the loco would have to originate from SP roughly an hour earlier. In that way, we are different from lines like the SVR and NYMR that have a motive power depot at each end; and also different from, say, the KESR where, I imagine, the main traffic flow is Tenterden - Bodiam and return, which fits in with engines being based at the Tenterden end of the line. If our traffic really developed to the extent that our major traffic flow was EG - SP, that would present a strategic issue we'd really have to get to grips with, but it is hard to see where we could base locos north of SP.

Tom

 

Isn't the biggest problem with operating an early train out of EG that none of the stock is at that end of the line, whereas at Alton they can berth a set there overnight?

 

I Think it is Locos rather than than rolling stock, it was been discussed either on here or the Bluebell Yahoo group ( or both before). I believe it was stated that crews need to arrive at Sheffield 5.00am to run the current 2 train service timetable. Except for Galas I doubt whether you will get my volunteers prepared to start any earlier on a regular basis, taking into account the time they will have to get up, and travel time. It must be a very long day for some. Crew hours may come into it running an earlier service? They might need 2 crews per day on a loco? Do they have enough Volutunter crews ?

 

So is Stepney pretty much confined to static display from 2015 onward due to the amount of work required on it?

 

why would it take an ECS to run from Sheffield Park to East Grinstead in an hour?

i dont understand!

plus an ECS isnt subject to the light railway order max speed for passenger trains? (please correct me if im wrong!)

cheers,
julian

 

The loco has to run round when it gets to EG, and a small loco may also need to take water, which I included in that time. By not stopping at Kingscote, you might get that time down to about 50 - 55 minutes between leaving SP and being ready to leave EG, but not any less. The actual journey time is about 35 mins, but then add on about 20 to run round and possibly take water. (Our current normal timetable allows 41 and 19 respectively, and you could shave a few minutes off each, but not much).

The 25mph limit applies regardless of whether there are any passengers on the train or not. In any case, with some locos and some loads, 25mph is pretty much flat out, and the timetable has to be written so that it can be kept in the worst conditions, not only in the best. Also, the thing that makes a real difference to section times is acceleration, not absolute top speed.

Tom

 

Not quite that early, but the time available is still pretty tight.

Diagrams that have three round trips in a day can be run by one crew, including preparation and disposal. Diagrams that have four round trips can't. We use two crews, who either do Prep + 1 and 3 + disposal, or prep + 2 and 2 + disposal trips each.

Tom

 

With the KESR extending to Robertsbridge, a second loco shed is being built at Robertsbridge. In addition, a single road shed capable of storing a 5 car set will be built opposite the platform. Hopefully that will keep the service trains free from the attentions of the local fair haired kiddies who showed so much respect to Cambria. I don't think that Tenterden being where it is dictated where our motive power base is. We simply moved in to where the shed had always been, albeit on the other side of the line! Rolvenden was about half distance between Headcorn and Robertsbridge, plus it was the original northern terminus. I don't know the Sheffield Park site pre-preservation, but I presume there wasn't a 3 road loco storage shed plus a works when the Preservation Society moved in!

I think we all make the best decisions we possibly can at the time, but circumstances change, and sometimes we needed to make a different decision in the first place!