Bluebell Motive Power

1638 and 45231 this Sunday, with 263 on a special of some sort. When the intensity ramps up, I assume 847 will get a look in. One of 263 or 592 will periodically be needed for the Victorian trains (probably 263) so that gives the other big Chatham engine (most likely 592) and a P as contingency.

Our Santas are only SP to HK, so avoid the harder end of the line. They are also timed at slower than normal section times. So the normal load limits won't apply - you could conceivably run a six coach Maunsell / Bulleid rake behind the C on its own, I would have thought. I also believe L150 is due back on Dec 10th or thereabouts. So actually the immediate motive power situation for the Santas looks rather better than this time last year.

Tom

 

Putting aside the need for it, the NYMR facility at New Bridge is a lot more spartan than you are suggesting would be needed. Just a pit and a crew cabin with shower and washing facilities. Oh and tea making. No coal, no loco water, no duty fitter. Locos can take water at the station and get coaled whilst having their daily exam at Grosmont. Whilst we do have New Bridge, there are many who think that it is far better to have light engine movements from and to Grosmont every day than stable locos at Pickering, and that's eighteen miles away. Mind you, there are other that think New Bridge should become a fully fledged MPD because that's where the locos are needed.
One big difference between NYMR and Bluebell operations is that the loco crew do not light up locomotives. They come on generally 1½ hrs before due off shed and prepare a loco that is already in steam, having been lit up by the duty fitter (at Grosmont) or lighter -up at New Bridge. NYMR diagrams are generally as near to 12 hours as you can get without actually being 12 hours, although there are some shorter ones.
As for planning permission, this is mentioned in the All Party report on Heritage Railways:
Planning constraints.
In general, heritage railways should benefit from the same permitted development rights as does Network Rail in relation to the national rail network. There is evidence that this principle has been eroded by the requirements of some planning authorities that heritage railways should seek planning consent for alterations or additions required for the railway’s operational use. This appears to reflect some uncertainty by both planning authorities and railways in relation to the requirements, and should be clarified through appropriate guidance. Listed building consent would continue to be required for those structures that are listed, as would the appropriate consents for changes in a Conservation Area. Operational requirements should continue to be exempt from the requirement for planning permission, particularly where the building or structure (such as a water tower or station building) is of a traditional railway design

 

That would be a better option for the Bluebell than a DMU or an MPD near East Grinstead.

 

Come on in, the water is lovely! incidentally, by "mess" I mean "kettle"…

Agreed

Very much disagreed!

Tom

 

That sort of thing has certainly been thought about.

Tom

 

I'd be interested to know (and Tom may be able to advise here) whether, among the many extra visitors to the Bluebell this year, there have been many who have come specifically because of the visiting engines. Obviously, an engine brought in for a gala is brought in very much in the expectation of attracting extra visitors, but apart from 3205, the Bluebell's other recent visiting locos (3650, 5521, 92212, 45231) have all been brought in because of motive power shortages. I remember talking to a lady at the SP offices when 5199 was hired in - again to address a motive power shortage - and she said that there had been a few enquirers specifically asking if this engine was working, although not as many as with some of the "gala" guest engines.

Strangely enough, I would not be surprised if the most obvious extra custom at the Bluebell drawn by unusual motive power has probably been those who turned up specifically to travel behind 33103 Swordfish!

 

Some people were wanting to come down and ride behind the 09 when it was rostered for service! They didn't realise it was allocated to the Golden Arrow however. In the end I don't think it did work the GA and it was top and tailed with Stepney and Bluebell on that particular occasion instead.

 

When Swordfish was hauling an extra train( 5 coaches), to the standard Service 2 at the Model Railway event , people were standing in the first two carriages, when I travelled between Horsted Keynes and Sheffield Park. I was only visiting to meet up with friend who was operating one of the layouts, for a drink at the Bessamer Arms. I was suprised how busy the railway. I was told by my friend that it was a quite quiet the year before (it was a new event and the weather was poor as well ) and some of sales stand packed up early.

 

The 09 I seem to recall ran a special charter with the Obo one evening after the main service had finished; however, that was a private event hired by some diesel enthusiasts (I believe they exist) who specifically wanted a ride behind the 09.

As for the visiting steam fleet: I went along to the war weekend (when 3205 was running) and it was rammed; however, how many came specifically for 3205, and how many because of the other attractions on that day, and how many were "spill over" from the general fact that we have been busy all year, I couldn't say. With regards the "long term" visitors (especially 92212, 45231, L150) - have we had people come specifically to ride them? I'm sure we have, but disentangling how many is I would have thought quite hard. The cost / benefit analysis on whether to hire them was made, I am sure, simply on what we needed to pull the trains, not whether they would in themselves act as a specific attraction. Ditto 5643 next year. I'm sure some people will come specifically to see her (I believe even GWR locos have their adherents, strange as it may seem). And I'm sure that there will be some photo charters that will contribute to the coffers. But ultimately, whether hiring that loco is sensible or not really comes down to the need for another service engine, and no doubt what is available in the market, and on what terms.

Tom

 

Thanks for the answers. Tom and others. Just hoping 45231 will be in action in the Christmas/New Year period, as I'm due to be down in the area at this time, and quite fancy a run up to EG behind a Black Five.

 

Knowing the condition of Stepney, is this engine almost certainly confined to long term static display from 2015 onwar?.

 

According to the EVR Facebook page Class 101 DMCL E51505 and Class 108 DMBS E50599 will be visiting Bluebell
https://www.facebook.com/wyvernrail/posts/10151783401937175:0

 

There's a loco department joke that goes: "Q: What do you need to do to repair Stepney? A: Remove whistle and crane up to the rafters in the workshop; remove remains of loco; wheel in replacement loco; lower whistle back onto engine. Carry out steam test etc...".

Well, that might be a bit of an exaggeration, but clearly the condition isn't very good. So it is hard to see the company wanting to restore her, given the likely commercial return - I think the condition is beyond any possibility of another "quickie" overhaul, even for light duties, being a sensible proposition any more. That suggests to me the best hope would be if a group such as the Fenchurch Fund got involved, and did her as a volunteer-led project, which tend to be slower but can proceed as resources allow. But even then, it is going to be a major expense, as the amount of replacement would be huge. Moreover, the most likely group are currently involved with 178 (another major job), so aren't likely to do anything with Stepney for a few years. I'd have thought.

Still - Stepney 150 is in 2025 (and, for that matter, Fenchurch 150 in 2022!): twelve years to raise the money and do the work...

Tom

 

Was discussed up thread. Last I heard it still wasn't 100% confirmed, but that was a week or so ago, so maybe things have changed since then.

Tom

 

hi tom,
do you know what is required to STEPNEY? it's my favourite loco. i know the cylinders are dodgy - thats why a new cylinder pattern was made - isnt there a new cylinder casting already waiting?
cheers,
julian

 

?? I think you meant 027, right?

Noel

 

Indeed - My parents always told me of the need to mind my P's and Q's ...

Tom

 

Apart from the cylinders, the frames are in poor condition - 140-odd years of service have resulted in their becoming pretty "loose". The rivet holes are I believe "ovalised" and it isn't considered feasible to ream them out and re-rivet everything together with larger rivets. So new frames are a distinct possibility; or at least would probably be cheaper than a repair of the existing frames. New cylinders as well - I can't remember if there are a spare set in stock; I seem to recall two sets of cylinders were cast, but both were accounted for (didn't one set go to the Spa Valley?) At least the pattern still exists. Then I think most of the smaller fittings are pretty life expired. On the positive side, I recall being told that the boiler is actually in reasonable condition, but that might be a relative term...

Tom

 

If "Stepney" is likely to be beyond economic repair for the moment, would it be possible to arrange some kind of loan exchange for "Boxhill"?

Alternatively if you're looking at new frames, cylinders, and smaller fittings, why not build a new Terrier and keep 55 on static display? Would "Stepney" still be "Stepney" if all that was left of her after overhaul was the wheels and boiler?