4464 Bittern to do 90mph on ECML - 29 June & 27 July 2013

My mic shield has found fame at last.

 

Was nice and warm on the train. Even with the drop light open.

 

Newark, Notts, about as far south as you could get before failing light made it a video lottery.

 

I think that link should work! 4464 at Hitchin. Only a phone video, I wasn't expecting to see the train as I was on my way home from work, but after seeing it was a few minutes late I decided to bail out and wait for it.

 

Sorry Al but I have to disagree with you on this one. What RTT actually does is make everyone think they are as good as a qualified train planner or signaller, just with none of the responsibility! NR signallers and controllers are under great pressure to not screw up the pathing of trains especially where steam charters are involved. If they get it wrong and delay other trains they will be asked some awkward questions. In hindsight maybe Bittern could have stayed on the fast as planned but hindsight has a funny habit of not revealing itself until after the event has passed. Someone somewhere had to make the call and decided to play it safe and you can't blame them for that. We had our fun, then the plan went a bit wrong but faced with giving the fast to an 125mph electric or 90 mph steam it's not surprising the decision they made and they probably did give it a lot more thought than you give them credit for.


And to ask whether Network Rail staff are bothered is very unfair I feel after all that's been put in to these trips. I don't feel you should be judging the guys in the box unless you were actually in the box at the time yourself.... They have their reasons, and RTT is in no way proof of their "screw ups". The more you use RTT especially at the lineside or on a station the more inaccurate you actually find it really is a lot of the time. Please can we all not use it as "evidence" of a "wrong decision" by signallers?

Well that's what I think anyway.......

 

Filmed at South Muskham and Arlesey.

 

(Ooops - second part of post!!)That is a mighty impressive log with long stretches at 90+ and about 40 miles at over 80 except for what looks like a slowing to 75 for a speed restriction.

Hopefully, with good negotiating skills and persistence to get to the goal, 90 will be allowed on these special stretches with an occasional 100 peak sanctioned using a select band of engines (like Tornado, Union of SA, Duchess of Sutherland, Clan Line - if those owners think it ok!) which meet required high level specifications...thought could be given to include additional safety requirements such as, if possible, to log the regulator and cut off settings above 75 to ensure that the engines are not thrashed to achieve high speed. Personally I would like to see Bittern go to Germany or Poland where it would probably be allowed to run up to its design speed - expensive, but maybe someone could do the projections to see if it were commercially viable !

 

I don't think the technical solution of a regulator limit to "keep things safe" would work - an A4 at high speed likely has the regulator wide open and the reverser right back, the idea being that the loco works most efficiently when the steam is admitted for a very small part of the stroke, and the rest of the stroke is driven by expansion of the steam.

It definitely does seem like all involved have done everything right and justified the derogation to run at 90 mph!

 

You lucky s*d............

 

Having watched the footage it's amazing that in the 21st century a 70+ year old steam engine can draw such enthusiasm....the A4's still make my hair prickle when I see them in full flight with the chime whistle blowing........the Jubilee, Coronation and West Riding Ltd must have been sensational in their brief period on the main line. Well done everybody for making this happen.......

 

Sadly, railway operation isn't based on hindsight. It's very easy to look at RTT and play fantasy train-planner or signaller but it's a different matter when you're sat in the box making those calls, often there made in the Control office for you. Delaying a train 3/4 minutes isn't acceptable, particularly if it's to the main TOC for the ECML which hasn't got a great reputation at the moment for running punctually. I'm sure it would have been great to see Bittern carry on running at 90 mph but that's still slow compared to other trains running at 100mph +. Lets not get too down on this and enjoy what was achieved.

 

I am sorry but I think you are wrong.
Both of the normal service trains were late. If the charter had been late, it would have been held even later but it wasn't. Or a switch to the slow and the resulting consequences understandable.
Instead it's path got taken and given to an already late running train.
The path was made available by Network Rail and as the charter was running to time and not breaking the limits imposed should have been allowed to continue in it's booked path. Instead it paid the price for another TOC's late running service.
And I think you will find that is not how open access is supposed to work.
What I would find interesting to know is if there were NR planners on board, or if they were ever supposed to be? We have seen what that kind of cooperation can achieve in the west.

 

On the other hand, had 60019 been allowed to stay on the fast line and the, albeit late-running, service trains been forced to follow it resulting in their being further delayed, it may then be claimed that, even at 90 mph, steam trains can cause delays. As it was, the train was kept out of the way of service trains and there may well have been cases earlier in the day that proved that it was easier to slot a 90mph train in between service trains than a 75 mph one, which may mean that there's a chance of seeing more 90 mph running in the future. I'm sure being put on the slow line was very frustrating for the passengers, but there appears to have been some excellent running earlier and much better to remember what was achieved there, than moaning about what wasn't achieved further south.

 

Good to se you at South Muskham Dave, I see you made it back down south in time for a second bite. I rocked up at Welwyn North in plenty of time for a second go, but then all this mucking about with the schedule became known, and as I was under orders to bring home a take away chinese, I abandoned my stake out, packed up and went home.

 

At the end of the day, Bittern got in some 90MPH stretches - reliably, and was versatile enough to be switched out the way when required by the fat controller without issue. Sir Topham Hat will be happy and won't kick up a fuss if someone says "can we do this again please"

And as a bonus - its back down south.

 

Modern operating systems are a mystery to me. On the ECML are these decisions made by Control or are there still boxes with some autonomy? Also how are the decisions judged; does the computer predict that a faster train will catch a slower and be delayed or does someone have to do some mental arithmetic?

 

Control have the final decision about the order of trains but they aren't always asked for their opinion, regulating is mostly done by the Signalman. Control will, in my experiences, make a pre-emptive call to decide that one train may run before another. In some circumstances, the Signalman needs to phone the Controller to check before running a train - an example: at Worcester we are the last box before the Midlands that can regulate northbound freights, if we want to run one out-of-course then we need to phone Swindon Control who then phone Midlands Control to ask when it should run. Add in that TOC Control also may want a say and put in a request asking for one of their trains to be given preference.

Add in that in some boxes, like York IECC, will have a 'Shift Signalling Manager' (or something like that) who can also advise the Signalman what trains to run in what order. The Signalman does though retain some degree of autonomy about what to run and when but there are times when other, senior grades, get involved.

I suspect that the calculations regarding pathing times, headways and potential delays will be done by mental arthimetic but having never worked in a large signalling centre (and I've only visited one (Motherwell) once) I can't say for sure whether they have a better type of software then the TRUST that I use or have better knowledge about how to use it.

 

Come on guys. Look at what NR did amongst all the chaos on Thursday. They could so easily have cancelled the train right at the start of the day.

And yesterday there were two really goods start to stop sections with lots of reported 90 mph plus running.

And OK, maybe a less cautious controller would have seen Bittern run Fast line to Hitchin, but that wasn't to be.

Don't let that drag down a wonderful experience for so many by yet another Nat Pres slanging match, (not really started yet I know, but it could do).