Mainline steam trespassing incedent !

Not sure if there's a thread for this, but did anybody see the picture featured in this months Heritage Railway magazine of the the two steam tours at Chester ? The picture shows a huge group of photographers taking snaps of the Black Fives and Oliver Cromwell as they lay in rest in around the platforms and sidings. What the photograph shows is a massive group of people on the left, who have positioned them selves well of the platform edge and standing next to the running rails to get a shot of 70013 whilst being yards away from the platform. Most shocking of all is the two blokes who have walked so far up the line their standing underneath two sets of signals to get a shot of Ollie ! Couldn't believe what i was seeing, and this all happens on page 58/59 of this months magazine !

 

This image was published on the NW Rail site. http://www.nwrail.org.uk/nw1312b.htm



Sadly some people don't understand that 1950s and 60s rules no longer apply. Llandudno trains use 3b and are doing a fare pace past the group on the left. Northern use bays 5 and 6 and from time to time shunt units between. It gives a very bad impression and leaves me with an uneasy feeling.

The platform train interface is a big rail safety hot potato at the moment and this kind of reckless trespass does not help. On the other hand some asked why the BTP were not present. Problem is, policing a group of adults who are old enough to know better isn't really a good use of time.

I am very aware that many staff at Chester are sick and tired of dealing with "spotters". I for one hope Network Rail will platform end fence sooner rather than later - something modern and ugly like this... Only taller.

 

Over 100 non passengers came through before either train had arrived. Quite a lot from the trains will have also hung on to wantch the shunting. Others visitors will have arrived by service train. I have nothing against railway enthusiasm and count myself as one so am not tar-ing. Other staff may though. My point is there are many who should know better and the problem needs to be tackled.

Now, those who have travelled in on the charter trains could have been warned by staff on board about the risks of trespass. A poster was displayed at the station for non travelling visitors and the station staff did warn people personally and via the PA. I had a word with one who climbed a signal to get a better view and could not see anything wrong with what he was doing.

 

I saw in the Sussex route log from the weekend that a group of photographers had been spotted in the cess near a station local to me (awaiting steam special to pass). According to the log they were challenged by the driver of a passing train. Not only dangerous behaviour, but disruptive to services.

 

I think most (if not all) promoters' tour booklets include a warning about trespassing. When PA is available, the train manager etc will often also give the same message.

 

Good to know... I have heard warnings on a few trips but have not been with SD at all or RTC for some time now.

Of course - none of these people should need warning. They are all, suposedly, law abiding adults.

 

" .... The platform train interface is a big rail safety hot potato at the moment ...."
[/quote]

Going admittedly off-topic, this point did make me wonder about the safety case for putting a platform face on the up fast at Peterborough.

 

People at Chester that day also saw fit to cross the running lines by the barrow crossing at the east end. One bloke set off across the barrow crossing completely ignoring the member of staff shouting at him to stop! (I mean there couldn't have been a train coming or anything could there?.......Don't be stupid it's not as though its a railway station! )

Of course this is all just bloomin' elf n safety spoiling everyone's day isn't it? I mean as people were saying on the platform at Chester, having just been reprimanded for crossing a running line, it is "just common sense......" Is it now? Well some of these people certainly didn't have any of that.......They were crossing active lines without even looking! Common sense really isn't common at all.

As for that photo above the complete and utter **** standing on the sleeper ends with his arm over the rail probably in his little brain thinks he has plenty of "common sense"................ and no doubt will keep thinking that right to the moment he goes splat on the front of a unit.

If highly trained, qualified, safety briefed and examined members of rail staff are being killed, injured, or experiencing near-miss incidents trackside, do these people really think they are safe wandering around all over the track?

The way in which some of these people look down their noses at qualified staff who "remove them" from the ballast or platform ramps is also appalling and reflects very badly on the enthusiast community. Members of staff talking to each other said they prefer dealing with drunks and youths than rail enthusiasts. Sometimes I can see why.

Much of it I think is down to big headedness. People who wander around places spouting their railway "expertise" to others often don't have a clue what they are talking about. The old saying "the more you know the more you know you don't know" more than applies in this case. The railway Rule Book is now publically available. Any enthusiast who wants to lecture railway staff on their responsibilities and railway operations (as I saw happening at Chester that day) should first memorise the relevant sections http://www.rgsonline.co.uk/Rule_Book/Forms/Live_Documents.aspx?RootFolder=/Rule_Book/Rule Book Handbooks&FolderCTID=0x01200060B274261602B94B84F5B3E1E95DE5C8&View={0007ACA4-12EA-4EC3-B2B7-0810CA434F46} and then have several years real world experience working on the railways.

And as a final thought need we remind ourselves of this little classic..................


and he was standing on a "public" barrow crossing.

 

And brasso1 people will just walk around those fences and jump onto the trackside. I have seen it done! Proper platform edge doors with no means of access whatsoever from platform to track is the only way to stop these people I'm afraid. And even then they'd start bringing ladders............

 

It's not going to end well is it!
It was one thing years ago when the only people likely to be there were a few die-hard enthusiasts ,who probably knew what they were at,and the General Public thought they were objects of fun, but now events such as these draw large numbers of Joe Public who have no idea at all. They see a guy cross the line and think it's OK to do likewise. That guy might know what he is doing but he should think hard about others less savvy copying his (bad) example.

 

The fences make it impossible to argue that you "didnt think there was anything wrong in what you were doing"

Safety and awareness on the railway is critical. Even profesionals get it wrong...

 

Sorry if I didn't make it clear but the barrow crossing is not for joe public. It is clearly signed that it is for staff only and well beyond the "do not pass this point" marker. He most definitely did not know what he was doing on the track, and did know he was doing something he should not!

You're right that once one person does something, everyone copies it. That is why staff and BTP must be so strict in that no one goes past the lamppost with the "do not pass this point" sign on it. As soon as one person goes onto the ramp, the next person stands to the far side of them to get their shot, and before you know it the line stretches down the ramp and there are people all over the ballast as in that photo above. That is why staff/BTP must remove people who are even one foot past the marker, because the next person will go further and so it will continue.............................. Experienced staff will know this and that is why they appear heavy handed or "jobsworths" but they know that if they don't keep on top of things to begin with the situation will get out of hand.

One way tour companies could help is by posting their own stewards at platform ends to act as a kind of authority on the matter. If I were to say anything to these people (or shout at them as they are so far down the line!) the response would probably not be suitable for print................... "Self policing" I'm afraid will not work.

 

Not aware of that one. The comment was related to...

If anybody doesn't understand why traincrew in the Chester area are worried when people getting too close to trains both on and off platforms - look up the James Street Incident.

It was a totally different incident but it still involved a risk taking member of the public and it led to a member of staff going to prison. He was also a member of staff known to many who work at Chester.

I can't argue that he was 100% in the right. He took a risk and it backfired. However, as I say, I had uneasy feelings on the day of the visitors people were very close to the edge of platform 3a and not paying attention as a train passed. The driver does not wan't to kill anybody or for a judge to believe he is responsible or should have done anything to avoid it.

 

Brasso to be honest I hadn't even thought of that aspect of it but now you mention it I can see how one of these w*****s getting themselves killed could as you say lead to staff going to prison for "negligence". My opinion of these people sinks to new levels......

 

Never happen, the national network isn't the Jubilee Line you know where all the trains are a uniform fleet of standard length with computer control.

Personally I don't mind those platform end fences, most I've seen are only about 4 1/2 ft tall, so easy enough to shoot over even if your not Peter Crouch, already standard on most platforms between Brum and Cov.

 

One problem is inconsistency across the network. For example the position of end of platform notices varies widely. Some are placed many metres before the ramp but others are placed at the bottom of the ramp. Many platforms have no notices. Then one has to consider that in reality standing on the ramp is no more dangerous than standing on the platform. There are of course many other issues. I suggest that education is the most sensible solution. For example, it would be a fairly simple matter to broadcast guidance on station PA systems.

 

That picture looks familiar!, is that your new signature?

 

It's a pic of me, a few years old of course.... I'm a pub now.

 

Come on guys. Let's not go overboard. The image of the spotters off the platform is nothing compared to what was acceptable in 1968. It's still the same railway and still the same platforms!

Look! Even the coppers don't care about the train enthusiasts on the ramp and track!

Oh Happy Days!