Dean Goods Locomotive discussion only please

Actually, I'd have to disagree on this one. Small 0-6-0s are seriously under-represented in preservation, along with 4-4-0s. Most didn't last into the preservation era and very few made it as far as Barry. I'd have said that recreating one would be a tailor made project for the South Devon, for example where they now have most of the facilities to tackle it, and it would be ideal for that line. Sell the Hall or 38XX and put the proceeds towards it!

 

No you're not alone! But the rest of what you said also makes a lot of sense.

Strange, though, given how many 0-6-0 tender locos there were, how few have survived.

Steve B

 

I'd agree with you that 0-6-0s and 4-4-0s - which between them, carried the majority of passengers and freight in late Victorian and Edwardian times - are seriously under represented in preservation.

But the problem for new builds is essentially the diversity. Between the first 0-6-0s in around 1840ish and the Bulleid Q1, there were probably over 100 different types, or which maybe a dozen classes have survived. Which makes a problem for anyone suggesting a new build, in that each specific class will have its adherents, so it is difficult to get enough people to agree on one specific type. Even speaking personally, I can't decide which of three or four different 0-6-0s I'd like to see recreated, and none of those is a Dean Goods...

Tom

 

Well it certainly gets people talking thats for sure!

 

Yes, though we had quite a long conversation about the feasibility of a new build black motor a while back, and I am sure we are only a Facebook page away from similar long conversation about a C2x or any other 0-6-0 you care to mention. Talking about such projects is easy; I'm rather less aware of actual hard cash being raised for any of those projects!

Tom

 

Agreed regarding the choice of prototype. Personally, as an LNER follower I'd like to ex an ex-GNR o-6-0 as there are a couple each of NER and GNR examples but no GNR - but the fact is that there is a Dean goods boiler to start with and a lot of GWR fans and commonality of parts with other GQW types. What is needed now is a credible group and business plan. I'd sooner see a Dean goods than nothing - or yet another 45xx, 56xx, pannier, Hall or 28/38XX restored for that matter - variety and all that!

 

IF the lads insist on going ahead now (I still think that they should get a couple of year's experience on someone else's project first) may I suggest that, after securing the P&B boiler, they start with the tender for the following reasons:
The initial costs will be a lot less and the engineering much simpler but even that will involve a steep learning curve.
Some suitable standard parts such as wheelsets , axleboxes etc are more likely to exist than loco parts.
Even if the project goes 'tits-up' you are more likely to find a buyer for a standard 3000g tender than a few (unique) loco bits.
Ray.

 

Wouldn't they be best off starting with the drawings hunt? No point in getting into cutting metal until you know what to cut... It also has the advantage of being relatively cheap to do, but sufficiently hard work to demonstrate some committment.

 

I was assuming that that was understood, as one can't cut metal or know which other parts have to be obtained without reference to drawings. As you quite rightly say finding and purchasing drawings would demonstrate commitment - personally I doubt that the project will ever get much beyond a facebook page. Don't get me wrong I believe a Dean Goods using the P&B boiler would be be worthwhile project - and I'm not a great fan of 'new builds'. Ray

 

I missed out several! I wasn't even going to try and mention them all - but I did mention Llangollen, which if I'm not mistaken has some link to the Patriot project.

Steve B

 

like tom, i would also love to see an GWR Armstrong Goods Standard class 0-6-0, and no one has seen one since 1934!
i also mourned the loss of the last Brighton Atlantic and never thought i'd see the day when BEACHY HEAD would be rebuilt. i also mourned the loss of the single Fairlee Taliesin on the FR and never thought i'd ever see the replica, and the same for that matter the LBR Manning Wardle tank being recreated. Firefly, Iron Duke, Tornado etc. new boilers and cylinders for Brighton Terriers etc. anything is possible! the CR has it's Tattoo replica and is well underway with the new Falcon loco with frames and boiler complete. i remember walking along the track bed at Beddgelert in 1976 and walking through the Aberglaslyn tunnels/pass....
cheers,
julian

 

I too would love to see a Dean Goods built using the P&BR Boiler if it is indeed available.

However unfortunately I fear the individuals involved in this project have burnt their bridges before they've even begun. To put it bluntly, which project number is this now? Look at the L1 thread to see their reputation. Until something more substantial than a Facebook Page appears then it is unlikely they will ever get the support required.

Sorry to burst the bubble with some realism, but any new build project is hard enough without generating a poor reputation before you've begun. The only way I can see this being achieved is if the individuals go away and get involved with an established groups and assist with whatever project they are undertaking. Gain some credibility and then come back with this idea. Unless this happens they will always be viewed as a group of dreamers simply wanting the glory of building a loco.

 

I think the latest question on their Facebook Page backs my post above up quite nicely...

 

Well, a number of the doubtless highly experienced and practical people posting here, who are of course not keyboard warriors at all (unlike me I admit) have suggested they should build something other than a Dean Goods, so don't say they aren't listening to advice...

 

AlexG (see post#17) appears to be in a position to know that the Dean boiler IS probably still available. It only re-inforces the view that Stuart & Co have done little or no research and have simply moved on to something else when a little effort was required. On the other hand maybe a new Hornby catalogue is due out! Ray.

 

where's the guy gone? if he started the discussion, he must have known what the expect, you'd think he'd stand his ground and fight his corner (to mix metaphors a bit)

 

I refer those defending Mr Reeder to my post here: http://www.national-preservation.com/threads/new-builds-how-many-will-ever-really-work.32387/page-19 (post #363) and especially to Mr Reeder's reply on the same page (post #365)

Stuart agreed to follow the points that I had made regarding his L1 project. So why has he ignored that advice for his Dean Goods project?

There was other advice given on the same thread by others which is applicable to these projects but it has all been ignored.

Stuart was also informed that the P&BR boiler could still be made available, but instead of following up that lead, he made the announcement quoted by lil bear above and started looking for new new-build suggestions!


Keith

 

It's like watching Groundhog Day, but without (apparently) any of the eventual self-realisation that the main character develops. Or if I am charitable, maybe Stuart just needs another few hundred false starts. Let's hope he keeps at least some of them to himself, as it is already pretty tedious.