Bluebell Railway General Discussion

Bit disappointed that 45231 isn't rostered for February half term midweek. I made arrangements to come down for a visit Wed/Thur in the hope that it would, having failed to get a run behind her up after Christmas to EG due to the landslip. Tom, is there any chance that you can have a word with the powers that be?

 

I can only echo those questioning the profitability of mega-Galas but there are two further aspects here - firstly, and financially, one presumes that "Mega-Galas" turn a profit (to which I will return) but they do so at massive cost and hence an even larger risk. I know of at least one occasion when a weather warning was issued for the area where a Gala was due to be held, adversely affecting visitor numbers by quite a margin. Due to Galas being timed to bring extra business at otherwise quiet times of the year, the risk of bad weather is always there and the possible effect on visitor numbers undeniable. Hence, committing to high costs to bring in lots of visiting locos involves placing the Railway in question at great financial risk, and, if the Railway is a charity especially, that is a factor its management and trustees must consider before committing to such expenditure. I have heard total costs for hire and haulage of over £60,000 quoted for a gala a good few years back on one line.

However, the other problem is purely practical - actual getting visiting locos which both parties are happy with the visit. A number of lines are short of motive power, while others are understandably reticent to allow their locos to visit elsewhere. Locos capable of handling a "potter about" on a short, flat line may not be up to longer or steep route. Galas tend to be off peak and hence many events are taking place over maybe a 6 week window in Spring and another in Autumn. Clashes occur (even this month!) but the event doesn't need to be the same weekend if to provide a problem if a loco needs moving from the North West to Sussex, or Somerset to Yorkshire! Mainline commitments, when you can easily have up to 4 specials on an Saturday, also take a large number of potentially suitable guest locos out of the equation. Even when visitors are lined up and announced, how many changes in lines have there been recently by the time events actually happen?

Galas are a difficult and risky business. Whether they are worthwhile depends not just on covering the additional costs incurred at the event but also needs to consider what the Railway in question would otherwise be doing. I gather the Bluebell run a 2 train plus Pullman service every weekend of the year, and while I am sure that the income varies, presumably even a wet or snowy January weekend turns a surplus over direct operating costs. Will a Gala add sufficiently to what would otherwise be achieved to cover not only the costs but give a suitable return on the extra work and risk involved? The West Somerset Spring Gala tends to be on what I would imagine are either non-operating days before the start of the main season, so may well be seen as having a "nil" income otherwise, but most Galas, especially in the Autumn period, are on what would otherwise be normal weekends.

Finally, a thought on being a "thank-you" to the members and especially volunteers - I have over the years heard just as many if not more complaints that too much has been spent on guest locos and "we only needed pone guest, not 2" than complaints about lack of a larger number of visitors. Whatever the structure of a heritage railway, it is almost certainly a Company and its Directors and Managers are legally required to act in the best interests of its members, which is not necessarily the same as in accordance with the loudest expressed wishes!

In short, the practitioners of the "Mega-Gala" may well have sown the seeds of the death certainly of lesser Galas and potentially even of the Mega events themselves.

Steven

 

But 1 of those is either Wealden Rambler or Golden Arrow.
A gala with 4 ordinary sets is what people are after.

The WSR only have 1 more crossing point and the frequency of trains is 1 hour, while on the Bluebell 45 minutes is possible.

I agree, and there have been many complaints on various gala threads when this has occurred and/or about unnecessary double heading. 1 or 2 locos at most dependant on capacity of line.

 

You were being quite facetious yes! It's not a call for more galas, it's a I don't understand why your not having one!!

I do believe there is a photo charter with 45231 this month but I'll gladly admit I'm wrong if there isn't. I also didn't suggest hiring in a loco for a week, all the potential locos I listed are already on the railway.

I find the Bluebell to be a bit hypocritical on the whole gala front to be honest. Several events have been postponed/cancelled or adjusted in the last few years due to the lack of locomotives, that isn't a dig it's just bad luck. However as stated in my previous post, for the next 4 weeks or so there will be over 10 operational locos on the line with 5643 and 45231 both present at the same time! No extra hire costs for visiting locos as 3 of them are already here!

I'm not suggesting for one moment Bluebell goes down the mega gala route with handfuls of locos visiting as yes I agree it probably wouldn't be financially viable, but to have nothing is a disappointment. The railway can boast a fantastic fleet of operational carriages and a decent length goods train too, more than a lot of other railways can. Why not show them off for a weekend? The Branch-line weekend was always held late February or occasionally early March so it's not as if the Bluebell is breaking a habit of a life time by holding an event this time of year.

Picking up where other members have posted about gala's being a bit of a thank you event, yes I would agree. How many enthusiasts, volunteers, staff and civilians contributed towards the tip fund? And now the Railway has the pressure appeal. Surely a weekend of intensive service with everything out that can steam as a gesture of goodwill isn't too much to ask??

As ever, just my opinions...

 

Hear, hear. They can find the time to run a diesel gala using what's already on the line so not to make use of the available steam locos, especially the two visitors, seems a bit odd to me.

 

I agree with most viewpoints recently articulated. The mega-galas are too big for reasons that Stephen has shown. A few visiting engines on a big railway (3 at most) is ideal. As for volunteers not enjoying special events, perhaps that's a particular Northern thing...

 

The more engines you steam, the larger the coal bill, plus for each additional steaming day, the next washout, exam, etc comes closer, plus there would be the steaming fee , add them all together and ask is it in the railways interest?, you may well be using up steaming days that are needed later in the season, i like a gala as much as any one, but they do cost, the BB has got enough on its plate with running the extended service , once everything settles down and gets back to normal, thats the time to talk about galas, especially now that y ou can bring stuff in by rail, even if its not got a mainline ticket,as long as the loco hauling it has,) all you need is an UA on the axles, it can be in light steam, for instance how much would it cost to swop an engine or two between say the Mid hants and Bluebell this way, and to do another swop the following year ? say 34007,and 925 visited, and in return the mid hants got say 1638 and 73082 the following year, , both railways could share the cost and it would be benificial and a fairly low cost,

 

Directly I doubt whether galas are that lucrative (although the number of people at the GCR a couple of weekends back has made me doubt this), but I don't think it's just about the money taken that weekend or "broadening the clientele".

Galas are enjoyed primarily by enthusiasts. While they may not be the most generous on the day, who are those to whom railways turn when they need money for their next project? The enthusiasts. Keeping the goodwill and not the "arms length" approach it often feels it is makes people putting their hands in their pockets more likely.

Would a family donate money to build a shed to restore the Brighton directors saloon? Probably not. Would your typical SR / LBSCR enthusiast? Straight up they would.

 

To add to your post. We always do well with our fund raising efforts at galas as it's the enthusiasts who buy the pricier items that don't appeal to the general public.

 

Well said that man. You don't have to have a mega gala just one or two visiting loco will do. If we didn't have galas there would be some locos I would never see because of the distance I would need to travel to see them.

 

and to add to that I visited the Bodmin Railway twice once while on holiday and the other on a mainline trip and both times the T9 was in a shed with no public access, but I have seen it at the Severn Valley and Midhants.

 

Spot-on Chris, I would add that projects such as the Brighton Atlantic Project, Bulleid Society etc etc rely on these galas for donations/sponsorships from the enthusiasts. Generally whilst they may get some income from families it's mostly the dedicated steam enthusiast that will donate/sponsor money to the project at events such as Giants & Branch Line w/e's. I know certainly that the Brighton Atlantic Project were not happy that Giants of Steam was cancelled last year, again as has been said not the fault of the organisers as potential visiting locos couldn't come and there wasn't enough home based large locos available, but it cost them potential income and whilst Atlantic House did still open during that weekend they didn't receive anything like the monies they could have got had the gala gone ahead.

 

Sometimes it's not about making a profit has long has the event breaks even. If it's all about making a profit then the early pioneers of railway preservation wouldn't of bothered and where would we be now. Sometimes you need to give some think to get some think back.

Some of the smaller loco groups look forward to gala. This allows them to put sale stands up and also helps them to gain new members and financial support towards their loco. Many a loco has been restored on the back of sale stands at galas.

 

The other thing no-one has considered is the carriage situation.

I think we currently have something like 35 carriages available for traffic: 3 Victorian four-wheelers; the Mets; the GNR Saloon; four-pre group Southern carriages; three Maunsells; four Bulleids; and I think 10 Mark 1s, plus the three Pullmans and three other mark 1s used for the Wealden Rambler. We've recently lost the LNWR Obo to the workshop, though have got back Fingall.

Knock out the Pullmans and the Wealden Rambler set and you have something like 29 carriages: to run a four train service (the maximum line capacity), you end up with something like:

(*) Mets + 4 Wheelers = 306 seats (incl. 4 wheelchairs); 111 tons
(*) 3 Maunsells + Birdcage + 100 seater + LBSC 1st + LSWR 3rd brake = 385 seats (no wheelchairs); 206 tons; or 181 tons, 347 seats if you knock out the mismatched LSWR carriage
That leaves 4 Bulleids and 10 Mark 1s to make up two six-coach rakes, each of which will be about 210 tons and about 300 seats. One of those sets would probably have the GN saloon on it.

In other words, to run a four-train gala of normal stock requires all but three carriages to be simultaneously operational - that is a lot of strain on the C&W department to align maintenance schedules such that all those carriages become operational (rather than needing the C&W equivalent of boiler washouts etc) at the same time.

So it is not as simple as saying "why can't they run a gala", especially at short notice: to get that stock available for a given weekend would have required several months of juggling to get everything aligned at the same time. And before anyone says "you've run 4 train galas in the past" - it's true, but generally the old Branchline and Autumn Tints galas had shorter sets. To my knowledge, we have only so far ever run one gala when essentially the entire carriage fleet (and, as it happens, more or less the entire loco fleet) was all simultaneously available and that was the weekend of opening to East Grinstead.

Tom

 

But Tom, why should you let such unimportant things such as boiler washouts, coach maintenance, repairs and lack of resources get in the way of a gala? If you don't run the week before, you will have plenty of time to do all this and have sufficient resources available. And, according to 73129, you're not running it to make any money, anyhow. After all, it's not rocket science, simply pie in the sky.

 

I understand about running most weekends of the year and running mid week in the summer months which is where all the profit is made and all the resources are being put in to running the railway. I also understand running a gala weekend is a big commitment with regarding loco hire costs. But surely has long has the gala makes a small profit or breaks evens its worth running. At the end of the day there are people for steam gala's and there are people that will find any reason not to run a steam gala weekend.

 

How long do you think it takes to do a full exam on each coach, ? you would need a month to get though that lot, assuming that every buckeye passes, that no pins are worn, that no brakes need adjusting, that every tyre is with in gauge?
would you need 4 full coaching sets? if you are going to run freights inbetween services, and your changing locos at both termini, you can get away with running 2 public sets as station time is reduced and you would only need long enough to attach one engine, un couple the other , brake test and off.

 

At the Model Railway Weekend last June 3 sets were in use( 2 6 coach sets and 1 5 coach set) and all the seats and sanding room were taken in at least 2 coaches of the 5 coach set of one train.This event had been poorly attended the previous year( partly due to the weather according to a friend of mine who was operating a layout who i met for a drink at last years event.The Crompton was operating.For a gala 4 six coach sets would almost certainly be required.

 

Dont forget the time required to pull strings if a GW loco is coming off and anyone elses is comming on

 

I don't think that would work. Essentially that is a novel way to run a two-train service with double your loco costs! The risk would be that people just sat on the train, preventing new passengers getting on.

Last year, we were running about 600 - 700 seats on any normal weekend day. So presumably at a gala we need considerably more (otherwise what is the point?); that means ideally four service sets.

Edit: Definitely wouldn't work - we can't swap locos at East Grinstead (one engine in steam, etc etc).

Which is my point (*). Putting out four six-coach-equivalent sets means just about maximum availability of our coaching stock. Carriages have a regular schedule of maintenance depending on mileage. That means there is a programme of regular maintenance, just as there is a regular programme of boiler washouts and other inspections based on mileage and days in service. In normal circumstances, the availability of your carriage fleet is below 100% - you don't have all your nominally serviceable carriages available for traffic at all times. Getting to a point, even just for a weekend, where you have close to 100% availability would require a lot of planning from a long-way out; and the downside would probably be a big dip in availability immediately afterwards as lots of carriages all run up to their scheduled maintenance at more or less the same time.

I'm not anti-gala; I'm just trying to point out that there is rather more to running a gala than just saying "lets put out four engines and twenty four carriages".

Tom

(*) though I'd say "six coach-equivalent", not "six coach". The four wheelers plus mets is seven coaches