Charter Train Price Increases

RTC already put out a notice a few weeks ago announcing a percentage price increase on all bookings on their UK tours past 31st Jan (forgive me if I got the date slightly wrong).

Is this in preparation for the new pricing structure in CP5?

If so, can we expect to see similar increases from all the other tour companies? If so, this will push a significant amount of standard class seats extremely close to, or in some cases past the ₤ 100 "glass ceiling". Is this going to see a significant decrease in enthusiasts who travel on multiple trains per year?

Should Dining passengers effectively subsidise the Standard passengers by raising prices at one end of the train and not at the other?

It has long been said that if Dining is full, the train will run no matter how many Standard seats have been sold, however the reverse is not true.

Any thoughts?

 

Small extra profit or not, there is one and whilst I don't expect any tour operator to reveal commercially sensitive information, it must be sufficient to make the provision of dining worthwhile.

 

There is that of course. Seems an expensive way of doing it though.

 

Not to mention all the uncertainties that go with steam tours these days, route/loco changes. Or more importantly- box involvement in some shape or form.

 

I suppose as well as costs you also have to consider demand, is there more for some classes than others ?, I'm unlikely to ever do a tour that doesn't feature Standard class as I prefer to make my own arrangements for food at the destination, and there's the buffet for during the trip.

The main concern at the moment is costs across the board are slowly rising (hence most promoters prices slowly creeping up), but wage are not, what this means in real terms is probably someone in the past who did 4/5 tours per year may have to cut back to 2/3.

 

Oh i think he does… more than all of us

Maybe the OP could tell us a bit more about CP5..

As for revenue it's not that hard to work out..

Mark 1 TSO = 64 std
Mark 1 FO = 48 1st

Using RTCs Peak Forrestor tour...

£94 x 64 std = £6016
£130 x 48 1st = £6240

Difference between 1st and Std is £224 worth of Sandwiches, Danish Pastries & Coffee for 48 people..or £4.66 per person..
That means the rest of the £36 fare difference (£31.34) goes to WCRC for providing a coach with a bit more walkway space and a comfy seat.

For the promoter.. the risk on the sandwich budget is mitigated by the need to sell 16 less seats to get the same level of revenue for a coach.

1st is just a differentiator for the public, not a revenue generator.

Now for Pullman..

Met Cammell Pullman holds 36 seats..

£209 x 36 PUL = £7524
The difference between std and PUL is £1508 or £41.88 per person for that 3 course dinner and breakfast.

 

here's the comparison of the winter cme

£79 x 64 std = £5056
£129 x 48 1st =£6192 ( diff to std = £1136 / 48 = £23.66)
£189 x 36 Pul = £6804 (diff to std = £1708 / 36 = £48.55)

In this case selling 1st class clearly pays off.
Given 1st class hasn't risen, and the difference in revenue between std and pullman (£41 vs £48) is pretty minimal, could we see the end of 1st class and focus on Pullman and Std only.
The problem with this is the need to sell more seats in Std...

 

Second Class Met Camm Pullmans have 42 seats, not 36 (count the windows - 7 x 6 seat bays)!

(I thought it was 36 for a good while).

Steven

 

Mark 1 FOs and the Met Camm Pullamsn which are sometimes used vice FOs both have 42 seats, so ADB968008's calculations should be...

£79 x 64 std = £5056
£129 x 42 1st =£5418 ( diff to std = £362 / 42 = £8.62)
£189 x 42 Premier= £7938 (diff to std = £2882/ 42 = £68.62)

 

Presumably what is important is net profit per coach, once you have taken out the costs of providing food extra on the dining coaches. In other words, to take the example above, the extra £2882 on a premier coach over standard has to cover the cost of providing 42 meals, including staff etc. I suspect there isn't a vast difference in profit per coach when looked at like that (and £362 on a first class coach looks very thin if you get anything "extra" than about one cup of coffee in a day!)

That said, assuming broadly each coach provides an approximately equivalent level of contribution to the train (that then goes towards the fixed overheads, i.e. loco hire, track access charges, marketing etc), then I'd have thought it makes business sense to have a mix, rather than concentrate all on one class, since it broadens the market base and to some extent will insulate you from changes in spending patterns those markets.

Tom

 

I think that the British Pullman offers food as good as you'll get anywhere. I've never had any complaints with my experiences of premier dining on either SD or RTC either. although not up to British Pullman standards, they compare favourably with dining on the Eurostar and even more favourably with a meal I once had on a French TGV. I've certainly had far worse food in some restaurants.

Talking of the French, I believe I read somewhere that good quality dining is viewed as an essential part of any French main line steam excursion!

I'd be interested if any older forum members can remember sampling food in Pullmans when they were in everyday service (Bournemouth Belle, Golden Arrow, etc). Was it as good as what's on offer in today's British Pullman?

 

My partner treated me to a trip with RTC for my 60th. She booked us in premier dining and it was most enjoyable. She was impressed and on the food front my lady is not easy to please.
Never travelled Pullman in BR days but did dine in the up Talisman once and that was pretty good. Can't compare it to the British Pullman though as I've not done that.

 

True but you also have to add the margin on the wine beer etc. that will have a marked impact on the profitability of the dining crowd.

 

Give standard class a decent selection of ale and some of us would do our utmost to double the profits.