Cumbrian Coast Express April 12th.

I had a conversation with a fellow passenger on the WCME, who though that for it to work(time wise) we might have Less Ross from Carlisle on the return.I am booked on the one in June.
46115 if it fits would be better for me since I have not travelled behind it yet( I have been behind Galatea twice).

 

I've been round the coast behind Gresley, Scotsman, Lord Nelson and City of Wells, all of which must be smaller than a Jubilee. Perhaps the ultimate expansion of Einstein's theory of relativity is correct - hence the phrase "less equals more".

 

I'm not buying that excuse from NR for one second; if A4's, Scots, Lord Nelson and unrebuilt WC's can all get round the coast then a Jubilee, which is the same shape as a Black 5, should get round there no problem. That's almost as stupid as NR saying last year that 46115 & 48151 were banned from Chester because of gauging issues...

 

Am tempted to ask if the computer's conversion factor converting metric to feet / inches is accurate !

 

Have A4's etc been round the coast? The old 1980's trains (like the santa specials etc) only went as far as Seascale (well Sellafield to turn) and I know we did that with 850 and 4498 on a number of occasions, how much has gone north of there where I know the gauging is bloody tight.

I know that the Duke has; it went round at v.short notice on a Saturday after Greyrigg happened on the Friday night - example of when NR can move swiftly!

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I went as far as Maryport with 46229 on 11-8-82, but beyond there was a no go area for steam specials because of tight clearances.
I'm a bit out of touch these days, so have things changed in the last 30 odd years?

 

I've been wondering about booking this. I reckon I'll wait and see what actually happens on 12th April and then decide about the June one.

 

I don't think things have changed at all within the last 30 years, or even from when the M&C was actually built. The tight clearances are between Maryport & Carlisle, if memory serves me right, it is the bridges that are the problem regarding the use of C1 stock. Railwaymen will joke that there are three four foots, no 6 foot! Steam-hauled charter trains in the preservation era, have ran from Carnforth to destinations at Sellafield, Maryport, and Workington during the 1980s and 1990s. The usual working was to employ the locomotive sitting at Upperby that had worked a northbound CME some days earlier, to run light engine to, say, Workington for example, to be in position to work the return CCE as far as Carnforth. The locomotive that had worked the CCE north to Workington from Carnforth, would then run light to Upperby to be in position for the next southbound CME. Locos that I am aware of that have been involved in such workings, have included: 850, 4472, 4498, 34092, and 46203. Just to rub salt into the wound, 5690 was involved on 18.06.83. There will be more locomotives that have been involved, to be sure. Support coaches weren't allowed to travel with the locomotives between Maryport & Carlisle. These were tripped between Carnforth & Upperby using the WCML. On a northbound CCE, the support coach would be left at 10A but would be on 12B upon arrival there!

When 71000 ran between Maryport & Carlisle, complete with train, in 2007, it ran as would an out of gauge load. In other words, nothing was allowed to pass on the opposite road, other than at Wigton station. 71000 was red flagged at Wigton box and then allowed into the station to wait on clearance. A Maryport bound service train, which had been held at signals outside Wigton, then ran into the station to make its stop before 71000 was given the road. In the words of Max Boyce - 'I know, cos I was there'!

 

I'm having trouble understanding this. The working with 71000 and the joke about "three four foots" imply that it's the gap between up and down tracks that's too narrow, but you also say "it is the bridges that are the problem". And, if various locos can run light over that section but the coaches can't go that way, why are the service trains OK?

 

71000 and 60163 are the only steam loco's I can think of that have done the Cumbrian Coast Line to Carlisle in the last 10 years.

60163 was April 2010.

 

I guess this guaging issue is falling wihin the new rule that NR have introduced that if any locomotive has not been over a particular route within the last 12 months it is deemed to be out of guage until a re-gauging exercise has taken place irrespective of how many times that locomotive may have been over that route in the past. Eg. 70013 banned into Liverpool Street for the re-run of the "Wandering 1500" and A4's into Carlisle. As no steam locomotive has been over the Cumbrian Coast route within the last 12 months it implies all steam locomotives are currently out of guage including Black5's. This seems to have been a major error / omission in the planning process of this trip before it was advertised and needs sorting quickly not only for 12 April but also for GB VII.

 

The Duke worked two tours round the coast in 2007. This was immediately after the Grayrigg Pendolino crash had closed the booked return route via Shap. The first tour, from Manchester, returned via the coast. The second, from Leeds, returned via Hexham and York. A few pix here:

http://www.smugmug.com/gallery/17160417_r7jnkn#!i=1300698880&k=Rx6FzVC

No window hanging was allowed between Maryport and Carlisle.

Some photos of Tornado's 2010 tour, which returned via Settle, are here:

http://andrewstransport.smugmug.com...-2010/26536120_fXbjFn#!i=2217132725&k=NjP24cD

Cheers

Andrew N

 

Gauging is not really an exact science. The clearances required on a route depend on how long since the route was last measured by the gauging train. The longer the interval the greater the clearances required, to allow for possible track movement etc. So a locomotive which has traversed a particular route may subsequently be declared out-of-gauge even though nothing has actually changed. I believe the gauging train covers the whole country roughly every four years.