Irish 'Tornado'? (whimsy warning)

This flight of whimsy is prompted by:
- an excellent talk about Tornado at the Cambridge IET by Rob Morland
- the RPSI's 50th anniversary
- having had a few long waits lately with no book to read, so time for idle speculation.

Tornado has inspired various other projects hoping to bring back missing classes.
That set me (as an RPSI member) to wonder what would be my choice for an Irish new-build project (in the event of finding a stray few millions pounds which needs spending)?
Sadly the circumstances in Ireland meant that all too few steam locos were able to be saved. But let's say we could just bring back one example - what would we choose?

So, how about a few criteria (which I will then ignore at my own discretion):
1. Suitable for RPSI, i.e. modern mainline use (as DCDR is the only heritage line, and they don't need anything very big at present). This would suggest an express type, as the modern main line isn't suitable for dawdling. It would also probably make a tank loco more favourable, as although turntables do survive on the Irish network, they aren't as many as they used to be.
2. Preferably representing some currently unrepresented facet of Irish steam, or maybe representing a railway which we don't have a preserved example from? This might mean favouring MGWR engines (none surviving) or perhaps WLWR or CBSCR?
3. Handsome engine (or what's the point!?)

OK, so to be entirely honest, if I did suddenly come into the millions, my personal choice would be VS Class N° 207 "Boyne"! A splendid loco, suitable for the mainline. But we already have 3 GNR 4-4-0s (and hopefully all in steam next year!!!), so not really covering criteria 2 at all.

Considering MGWR types, the K Class 2-4-0 (CIE G2) would probably be the most representative type, but might not meet Criterion 1. The MGWR's 4-4-0s were handsome - but not universally praised for their performance. And Criteria 2 might suggest something different from another 4-4-0. Of course the MGWR did introduce the Woolwich mogul's - and they were an important feature of the Irish steam scene. But then there are several of the Southern (British) versions preserved anyway.

A Bandon 4-6-0T (CBSCR) would perhaps be worth considering. They managed to work quite smartly on commuter services to Bray, so should be suitable for mainline use. And of course being a tank would help. They were also quite handsome.

For looks alone, a Waterford & Tramore 2-2-2WT would be awesome! But probably no use for modern mainline use.

Thinking of mainline types, perhaps a GSWR/GSR 4-6-0 would be interesting? A bit heavy perhaps (restricted routes), but a 500 (or 2-cyl 400) might be suitable - turntables permitting. Certainly add a bit of glamour and represent the GSR (now the 101 class is getting difficult to use on the mainline).

850 was a handsome loco, but suffered from various problems. Many commentators think these could have been easily rectified if the GSR had wanted to - but bringing back a flawed type is perhaps a little perverse (if anyone wants to start some controversy about the proposed P2 N° 2007 please use the other thread....)

There is an obvious elephant in the room - the NCC's superb WT class 'Jeeps'. Some RPSI folk would love another one to complement N° 4, which is just incredible useful and reliable. There are even have some spare wheels. But I would imagine that adding another example to this class would not be as interesting as bringing back something missing.

Considering the above, my (imaginary) money would probably go into a Bandon tank (with many a reluctant backward glance at N° 207).

What does anyone else think? Anyone got a spare few million quid or euros?

 

I think a GSWR 4-4-0 would fit the bill. Ideally a MGWR subject would be good too, the 2-4-0s were very pretty but are they big enough? All round a Woolwich mogul would be popular I think. The 4-6-0s are a bit big maybe? There are so many locos to chose from, it's hard question to answer. (how about a turfburner? getting my coat)

Re the Jeep, the 2-6-0 tender versions would be popular...and they were named.

 

I must admit, I think the Bandon 4-6-0T would probably get my vote too - after all, how many other 4-6-0T types can you think of in the British Isles?

I must admit I've always loved the GNR(I) 4-4-2Ts, and overall 4-4-2Ts are an under-represented type in British preservation; however, the GNR(I) is already well represented.

As for the Jeep, I agree with Reading General...if you're going to use those spare wheels, might as well use them to fill a gap in preservation by recreating the tender version. Admittedly not quite as flexible as the tank, but still...!

Of course, your criteria 1 implicitly rules out any of the Irish 3' gauge types. But remember, in the UK the narrow gauge lines led the way on newbuilds, with standard gauge following later! The scrapping of the CDR's Erne - the last Baltic tank in the British Isles - was a tragedy, and it would be fantastic if the preservation movement could atone for it. Furthermore, there are are probably enough broad gauge locos surviving to cater for Irish main line steam into the forseeable future; if either the CDRRL or Fintown schemes succeed in developing further, they may eventually have a genuine need for more motive power (though probably not for a while yet!).

I also have a personal soft spot for the Cork, Blackrock and Passage 2-4-2Ts, but it's hard to think of a justification for a replica! As you say, though, it's all whimsy...

 

I think the CDR is well enough represented , shame though it was that Erne so nearly made it. How about a West Clare 4-6-0T? or a Lough Swilly ditto (4-8-4T would be too much to hope for I guess.

 

Why build? Here in Australia we've got the purrrrfect candidate for you. A Victorian Railways R Class. 4-6-4 tender locomotive. We've six or seven of 'em over here. Some with no plans for the future. Already built and proven on the Irish gauge. Has the added advantage of meeting all three of your criteria, especially No 2.

 

No doubt they have the right track gauge but I suspect they would exceed the loading gauge. A photo would be good though....

 

The NCC mogul is , I think, quite closely related to the Crab (are those spare frames usable I wonder?) and also to the various 2-6-4t of the LMS. I'm surprised more of the LMS fraternity on here haven't run with this thread! But then again I find UK enthusiasts very parochial , even extending to little interest in Ireland's Railways, which are part of the same story as the UK lines.

Did you know that Jinty's ran n Ireland? also LNWR saddle tanks and 2-4-2t? Not mention N class 2-6-0 and more. It's a fascinating area of study I can recommend and now Merlin is back in steam, really everyone should try and ride behind this pocket rocket. I did from Dublin to Belfast a few years ago and I was VERY impressed.

 

Over 20 tonnes heavier than 800 Maeve, a non starter I regret

 

True, but Maeve is limited to the Dublin to Cork line and even if the R class was in gauge and lighter per axle, I doubt it would be acceptable anywhere other than this line which makes it (and Maeve) a non-starter. If you never saw Maeve in the flesh, then do go to Cultra and have a look, she is one impressive beast. I visited the other day after a long journey only to find the rail gallery was closed for renovation! Not pleased!

 

I trust, in the great cause of lavatory humour, that the "new" G.N.R.I. 4-4-0 will bear its name "Uranus"!

P.H.

 

the prospect of three 4-4-0s in steam at the same time is mouth-watering.

 

Indeed it has but why let that spoil the fun?

P.H.

 

171 was black of late

 

How about a VR K class 2-8-0 then? There's over 20 of these preserved and perhaps even some spare boilers for them (I seem to remember seeing a line of boilers at Newport years ago and being told they were spares) so perhaps one could be allowed to be an overseas ambassador!