FR & WHR & WHHR News

hi danny,
many thanks for that excellent and very interesting pic which i hadnt seen before. many thanks for posting it.
chyeers,
julian

 

I'm happy to be proved wrong but the only loco to I've seen carrying a bell is James Spooner and these were removed after 3 years. Little Wonder is quite well photographed throughout it's life and it never carries a bell. Photos of the England engines don't appear until a few years after introduction and none of them clearly show a loco carrying a bell. One shows Princess with something a bit bell like behind the dome but this looks more like an oil can on closer inspection. It is possible they had them on delivery but were removed soon after or perhaps when James Spooner was delivered there was an intention to fit the other locos with bells but it never happened. Either way evidence they were ever carried is thin on the ground.

Tim

 

Design concepts for the new Caernarfon station have now been made public.

http://www.festrail.co.uk/content/publish/news/394.shtml

 

The Prince of Wales reserves the "C" word for such architectural deviations from the vernacular style....

Cheers

Alan

 

That's just as crap as the initial plans for Bridgnorth, if not worse.

Don't employ design consultant's (or whatever poncy title they use now) for heritage railway projects, they are more used to designing an office or shop and have sod all concept that in this respect, the design has to fit a certain heritage and style, it's like bolting a space shuttle launching platform onto the Brunel trainshed at Paddington.

The building itself isn't a bad design for a business park or shopping centre, but completely ridiculous for a heritage/tourist railway where something (at least outwardly in appearance anyway) more oldly worldly looking is expected.

 

On this occasion I might be inclined to agree with him.
Don't get me wrong, the provision of new facilities is to be welcomed and is long overdue, and I've encountered some excellent modern station designs in my "day job" but surely this could have been made to look a bit more "railway" without needing necessarily to hark back to the 19th century?
The current artists impression looks as if it could be the entrance to a leisure centre or shopping mall.

The selling points also appear to have a touch of the "lies, damned lies and statistics" about them as well.
Even if you assumed the extra 5000 visitors were only spread over an effective 6 month operating season, it works out at less than 30 extra people visiting Caernarfon per day.
Not quite sure how that would generate an additional 19 indirect jobs....!?

However, if it persuades people to sink more money into WHR/FR coffers, it's got to be a good thing.

Chris

 

There are some features of the use of space that I like but the overall impact seems out of place and I feel will 'date' very quickly. Now just along from the station was the old De Winton works of which the old large-arched entrance would make a spectacular gateway if replicated.

 

Or a maybe a "modern take" on past NWNGR/WHR station buildings with the buff brick corners and slate/stone wall infill?
Use of more locally sourced materials would also be a good (non-statistical) selling point.

 

They could employ the architect involved in designing the RVR station at Robertsbridge and Aberystwyth - he seems to know a thing or two about traditional buildings!



.....but I would say that....

Foxy

 

But the WHR is not a heritage railway it's a tourist railway, this is what the fans of the new WHR have been saying themselves. The station as shown is perfectly in line with the image the WHR has given us to date and i don't think it is at all out of context. The WHR is a modern tourist railway, it does not pretend to be a heritage railway so what's the problem.

 

Even Tourists expect steam train running railways to look "old" and have a past atmosphere to them, look at the Paignton and Dartmouth, the definition of tourist over enthusiast, yet they have torn down the functional but brutal terminus at Paignton and replaced it with something considerably more traditional looking and in keeping.

Quoting tourism won't wash as even Joe Bloggs and 2.4 kids will be expecting something that looks like a railway station that has stood for over a a century, not the Death Star, Porthmadog has changed out of all recognition, but at it's heart is still a traditional looking station and buildings, by all means make the interior modern and suitable, but maintain the exterior look.

 

Actually I think you will find that most if not all of the station buildings provided on the other WHR stations to date HAVE adopted a heritage approach/image, as have other aspects of the reconstruction, so this one would be the odd one out. The line wasn't built brand new as a tourist railway, it does have a history and it is nice to reflect that where practical.

Granted, the other buildings are much smaller in scale than Caernarfon and it will be great to have a fitting "signature" gateway to that end of the line at last, and yes, that building needs to be practical from an modern operating perspective, but please, lets have one that reflects its use and looks a bit more like a railway station rather than the entrance to a shopping centre!

 

......but the

I had in mind the park and ride stations which seem to be perfectly in context with this one being proposed.

 

Is this new station to be built in the same location as the current station, or is the line going to be extended further into the town?

 

If 'council run leisure centre' is the look they were aiming for.....

They have nailed it.


Chris

 

Sorry Chris, but you have got it so wrong. It goes something like this, imagine the scene on a Saturday or Sunday:

"S'cuse me, where are the trollies?"

"What are you on about?"

"I want a trolly so I can get me shoppin' "

"You are in the wrong place, this is a station."

What d'ya mean station, this is the new Tescos ain't it?"

And so it goes on.

Architects - not all, but most - can be a bit like politicians, ever so slightly detached from the real World and out to make a name for themselves or to have their "legacy" standing firm against the rain and wind. If you want an example, just bimble a few miles south of Caernarfon and rest awhile at Harbour Station, Portmadoc. glance to the west and adjacent to the station you will see the height in architectural bankruptcy - Snowdon Wharf!! Only a good consideration from a developer/architect to a local "most important person" could have allowed this to happen, a complete and utter visual up-chuck and so "sympathetic" to the immediate surroundings.

Looks like the same can happen in Caernarfon, but who cares? Well, I do. You see, I am a tourist, just like the rest of you and I want my "experience" to be as near to authentic as possible. Baldwin mentioned "image" in an earlier post. Well, build that station and the "image" gets well and truly muddied, why?, because the trains - which being the major element in the whole "experience" are for a start, hauled by a steam locomotive - ever so slightly 1930's -plus, the coaches are modeled on - Pullmans!! - a wee bit retro methinks and a few light years from "Park and ride".

Get back to the drawing board - or CAD - whatever, and get back to reality. North Wales is not McLaren H.Q.

Cheers

Alan

 

That's my feeling too.

I'm not against a modern building in principle: since this is a brand new station, it is arguably more honest to go for a modern style, rather than build something that looks "heritage" but is really nothing of the sort. Also, the Caernarfon station site is a rather awkward shape and it is difficult to think of a "traditional" station design that would make a good model.

However, the architect here appears to have lazily followed the current fad for decorative woodwork on a steel-and-glass building. This looks good when new but you only have to pay a visit to Shrewsbury and look at the Theatre Severn (opened March 2009) to realise that such woodwork can end up looking very tired, very quickly.

I'm reluctant to criticise the FfR's plan because I'm sure they would have ended up upsetting someone whatever path they followed. But I feel I have to say something because I love the WHR and I want it to succeed - and the last thing I want is for the railway's showpiece new station to be reduced to a tatty eyesore within half-a-decade!

Even if the railway were to just jettison the exterior woodwork and keep the steel-and-glass elements, that would be a great improvement IMHO.

 

Sitting within spitting distance of Caernarfon Castle I expect there will be a number of local and heritage bodies who will have an opinion on the design of any prospective station.
Unless they get dazzled by the contents of the fr's wallet

 

i have looked carefully at the new design for the Caernarfon station and agree with all the above comments! absolutely awful!!
a NWNGR style building would be far more in keeping with the railway's heritage plus fit in i think more sympathetically with the close proximity to the castle.
cheers,
julian

 

I think before ruling it out completely you need to take into account that the building is much larger and has do a lot more than anything that has existed on the FR/WHR before.

I agree that the exterior of the building looks a bit harsh in the sketch. The wooden cladding and pointy edges on the roof certainly give it a Tesco look. However i'm sure this could be improved upon to give more of a railway feel to the building. It is just a sketch after all. The problem with that site is that the building needs to be two stories high to meet the requirements in the space available. This means that a NWNGR style building with a hipped roof would obscure the view from the houses on Segontium Terrace. So it really has to have a flat roof. Don't forget that the NWNGR stations were also not much more than fancy waiting shelters. I think something in that style would look just as imposing when scaled up to the size required. That's not say that perhaps the architects could subtly incorporate some NWNGR, WHR, LNWR, FR and local features into a modern design. That way the station draws on the history of the railway and it's location helping it sit a little better in it's surroundings. Also given it's slightly tucked away location it needs something that makes it stand out as a railway station and not a supermarket.

Having said all that there are some nice aspects to the design, such as the cafe with views of the castle. The large and sorely needed display space, and Llanfair in the lobby across the road from where it was built. It would be nice if provision was made to move vehicles in and out of the display area even if it uses temporary track across the platform.

Tim