If you register, you can do a lot more. And become an active part of our growing community. You'll have access to hidden forums, and enjoy the ability of replying and starting conversations.

The Border Raider - 5 July 2014

Discussion in 'What's Going On' started by spicer21, Mar 10, 2014.

  1. 60017

    60017 Resident of Nat Pres Friend

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2008
    Messages:
    9,103
    Likes Received:
    8,072
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Retired from corporate slavery :o)
    Location:
    Fylde Coast
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Thanks Alan, did you make it out today? Woodacre wouldn't be the same without you!
     
  2. steamingyorkshire

    steamingyorkshire Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2008
    Messages:
    2,204
    Likes Received:
    2,597
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Lecturer
    Location:
    Leeds
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
  3. GBoreham

    GBoreham Member

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2014
    Messages:
    369
    Likes Received:
    1,090
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Burscough Bridge
    Footage of 60163 storming over Shap Summit then flying past Dillicar Common & Galgate on the return.

     
    Drysdale likes this.
  4. 46223

    46223 Resident of Nat Pres Friend

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2011
    Messages:
    6,693
    Likes Received:
    6,342
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Lancs
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Unfortunately not, Woodacre is a bit far away for me now I'm not on the Fylde:(.
     
  5. Big Al

    Big Al Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    May 30, 2009
    Messages:
    22,591
    Likes Received:
    22,721
    Location:
    1016
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    On June 24th 2010, Tornado went over Shap with one of the performances that will go down in history. Set aside the under even time start to stop from Preston to Carlisle, it was the leg from Grayrigg to Shap Summit that was eye-boggling. The load was 13 for 480 gross. We went through Oxenholme at 64, topped Grayrigg at 49 and then only 11 minutes and 7 seconds later blasted over Shap at 43. Keith Murfin was driving and the crew was 'going for it'.

    By coincidence, it was the same driver today. We had 11 for 415 gross so a slightly lighter train. Oxenholme was passed at 62, we topped Grayrigg at 53 and then only 10 minutes 43 seconds later we swept over Shap at 43. Comparable? I think so except that today Tornado had something in reserve and my understanding is that she was worked hard but not thrashed. But it was not over.

    On the return we were booked only 34 minutes from Carlisle to Shap Summit - that's 31.55 miles...uphill. Pete Sheridan was driving and we almost literally flew at it. Penrith was taken at line speed and despite a TSR that took us down to 53 around Clifton and Lowther after 26 minutes (the booked time), this speed was built on slightly up the 1 in 125 with a minimum of 55 before passing the actual summit level at 59 in a little over 36 minutes. We crept through Oxenholme before the water stop in the loop in 53 min or so for the 50 miles from Carlisle.

    The running today was something special. I think it fair to say that the LNER triumphed over Shap again. No doubt a more accurate version of events will appear in the railway press at some point but I think both crews did us proud. Tornado always seemed to be working within herself and it is such as shame that she doesn't get more outings as every DBS crew I've had with her certainly know how to make her sing.

    One thing is for certain, she would bring an entirely different dimension to the winter CMEs, for example, but that is not to be. Many thanks to UKRT, the DBS crews and support crews for a great day. And by the way, NR, next time you do the pathing, remember it's Tornado you are dealing with. The apparently impossible is sometimes possible.
     
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2014
    spicer21, Bean-counter, Sheff and 6 others like this.
  6. Southernman99

    Southernman99 Member Friend

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2009
    Messages:
    946
    Likes Received:
    698
    That video coupled with Big Als comments. The first shot almost seems effortless.
     
  7. LMarsh1987

    LMarsh1987 Part of the furniture Friend

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2013
    Messages:
    2,972
    Likes Received:
    3,917
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    TBC
    Location:
    Birmingham & Arley
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Thanks for the on board report. I agree with your assessment, about the loco working hard, but not being thrashed. The climb up Shap going Northbound looked effortless, and you couldn't really here the exhaust, until the A1 approached us near Shap Wells hotel and went out of sight. Thought the Southbound climb to Shap was a fine spectacle as it passed through Strickland.
    I have to say DBS no how to put on a fine show, when in charge of Tornado. Thanks again for the report. Video to follow later.
     
    Drysdale likes this.
  8. malc

    malc Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2005
    Messages:
    2,475
    Likes Received:
    330
    I agree that it was an excellent run yesterday, but...

    As we passed through Oxenholme station on the return, I noticed that we were only 5 minutes in front of the Manchester Airport service train. Earlier posts in this forum suggested we might have been able to run non-stop to Preston ahead of this train ... maybe the NR planners do have a little bit more of a sense of realism.
     
  9. Big Al

    Big Al Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    May 30, 2009
    Messages:
    22,591
    Likes Received:
    22,721
    Location:
    1016
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    I disagree. The Manchester service was booked to stop at Oxenholme at 1709/1710. We passed through at 1705 at 10 mph. Had we been running at 70 ish (as we had been since Tebay) then we would have passed through Oxenholme at 1703, that incidentally was to the same timing as the remarkably fast booked path we had been given. Roll forward to Lancaster, the next stop for the Manchester service. Had we continued at around 70/75 mph (and it is mostly downhill) then that would have put us through Lancaster at 1718 or 1719. The Manchester service called there at 1724/1726, still five minutes behind us. On the final leg that we actually ran in 20.5 minutes against 23 booked, we would have come to a stand in Preston no later than 1740 - about four minutes ahead of the Manchester service. Hence my point about Network Rail understanding that the apparently impossible is possible with Tornado. If you keep a train running then you take up less track time and it is more efficient. Water would not have been needed at all and arguably not at Preston either if the engine was to continue with just a support coach to Crewe. But, of course, were Tornado to have been pathed to arrive at Preston at 1740 that poses an entirely new question about whether water could have been taken there for us to then continue with her to Crewe as in the original publicity for the trip. Two hours to water a loco, run to Crewe and change to electric is hardly a problem given that less than an hour of that would be on the move with steam.

    So, as I said, it was all possible and not with any silly speeds or times. But this is all academic and I fully accept that anyone at Network Rail would simply say. "Yes, that's all well and good but why should be bother with all this effort for just one charter (that's actually nothing special in the grand scheme of things). By the way, could you guarantee that this path would have been kept and that any delay costs would be met in full?"

    It was still a great day though.
     
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2014
    mouse likes this.
  10. LMarsh1987

    LMarsh1987 Part of the furniture Friend

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2013
    Messages:
    2,972
    Likes Received:
    3,917
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    TBC
    Location:
    Birmingham & Arley
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Top performance from Tornado yesterday. The Southbound run up Shap, was the highlight of the day for myself.

     
    alastair and Big Dave like this.
  11. ragl

    ragl Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2010
    Messages:
    1,797
    Likes Received:
    1,934
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Consultant Engineer
    Location:
    Shropshire
    A blue, external combustion "Pendo" with a chime whistle was out on the WCML yesterday.............

    An incredible performance by all involved with this train, least of all "Tornado", what a locomotive!

    A couple of short clips of the train, firstly, cresting Boars Head bank, then tearing up the bank out of Lancaster. A very memorable day out.



    Must dash, more speed exploits now - the British Grand Prix is on the box!!

    Ciao

    Alan
     
    rule55 likes this.
  12. RalphW

    RalphW Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Administrator Friend

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2005
    Messages:
    36,449
    Likes Received:
    9,908
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Retired-ish, Part time rail tour steward.
    Location:
    Northwich
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    I've just been talking to a couple of 'not really into railways' friends who were visiting relations in the Oxenholme area yesterday morning, and were taken to the station to see Tornado go through. Both were very let down by what they said was a lack of spectacle, when she came into sight there was only a trace of exhaust and no visible steam, then there was complete lack of exhaust noise except a sort of hissing/whooshing noise.
    Having been there some weeks previously they saw Scots Guardsman through, now that was what we expect a steam engine to sound and look like was the comment. :).
    In short they thought Tornado was a non event, and were not impressed.
     
  13. Yorkshire Exile

    Yorkshire Exile Member

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2007
    Messages:
    331
    Likes Received:
    82
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Codger and retired trustee of A1SLT
    Location:
    Jersey
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Just what is the point you are trying to make?
     
  14. LMarsh1987

    LMarsh1987 Part of the furniture Friend

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2013
    Messages:
    2,972
    Likes Received:
    3,917
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    TBC
    Location:
    Birmingham & Arley
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Should of been at Lancaster or Penrith on the return run. Going very well, with chimes blazing.
     
  15. RalphW

    RalphW Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Administrator Friend

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2005
    Messages:
    36,449
    Likes Received:
    9,908
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Retired-ish, Part time rail tour steward.
    Location:
    Northwich
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    As people just taken along to see Tornado but with no real interest, they were not impressed with what they saw, it did not conform to their idea of what a steam engine should sound and look like, unlike Scots Guardsman a few weeks previously.
     
  16. 242A1

    242A1 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2006
    Messages:
    1,561
    Likes Received:
    1,304
    Well, what happened to education? You should have explained the important differences between the two designs. You could then go further and inform them that the sounds they were expecting to hear, and indeed probably did hear from 46115, were not what should be heard from a well designed locomotive.

    Or, to re-phraseYorkshire Exile, what, exactly, are you trying to say?
     
    Yorkshire Exile likes this.
  17. RalphW

    RalphW Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Administrator Friend

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2005
    Messages:
    36,449
    Likes Received:
    9,908
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Retired-ish, Part time rail tour steward.
    Location:
    Northwich
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    242A1 You miss my point, these were joe public, and would not be interested in the slightest in being bored with anarak details concerning design.
     
  18. garstangpost

    garstangpost New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2006
    Messages:
    145
    Likes Received:
    83
  19. Yorkshire Exile

    Yorkshire Exile Member

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2007
    Messages:
    331
    Likes Received:
    82
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Codger and retired trustee of A1SLT
    Location:
    Jersey
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Spot on. Could also have referred to how weather conditions can affect the what is visible when a steam engine is doing its job.
     
  20. rule55

    rule55 Member

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2009
    Messages:
    311
    Likes Received:
    219
    I'll take Big Al's on train report as a true reflection of the measure of what was achieved yesterday if you don't mind.. With the greatest respect, this ain't the Red Arrows, we can't just turn the smoke on to suit disinterested onlookers.
     

Share This Page