WSRA Trustee Election Hustings

Ah, so you don't actually have the proof. I'll try to get it as I think we all need to see it.

On your last point, I don't suppose you have the figures to support that claim?

Steve

 

Whilst I am grateful for Robin's kind remarks, the fact that the other WSRMAG candidates have not contributed very much to these pages over the last couple of weeks is not bashfulness, lack of interest or understanding. We made a group decision a while back that some of the discussion here was counter-productive, in the sense that it was unconstructive and unhelpful to undecided voters. As we all know there is also the potential to rapidly degenerate into back-biting. So we agreed that I and Rodders, neither of whom are up for election this year would pick up this particular baton, which we have been doing. It may also interest you to know that our group have been in touch with each other very frequently (often several times a day) not to discuss election tactics, but to consider various aspects of the WSRA situation, and to consider how we would approach it. As I said in an earlier posting we also met last Tuesday in an informal meeting with a number of Trustees, to better understand their position. We have also jointly written and published our principles and consultation paper. Our key principle is openness and transparency.

So rest assured, all our group are very serious and engaged with this, and we have total agreement between us as to the way forward. We recognise that even if all the group were elected next week we would not have a majority. We would however be able to be very influential, not least because the newly elected trustees would continue to consult with all the membership in whatever way was open to us. I also need to state that we have agreed that none of our group would sign a memorandum of confidentiality. From time to time there may be matters (such as HR issues) which must be treated confidentially, but that is quite different from what we understand the present position to be which is that all the Trustees have signed a memorandum covering all WSRA matters. To take this a little further, we see no reason why the majority of Trustee meetings should not be open to attendance by members, should they wish. We must break into this closed silent approach.

Finally, on a personal note I will continue to support the group in whatever way I can. I've been involved in the railway now for exactly 30 years and I have no plans to go anywhere else. But do please support our candidates and then we can achieve some very real change.

Frank

 

Two very different views of, effectively, the same piece of information, one with anti-WSRA bias, the other without.

Dave

 

Re transport, arriving as I shall be by car at BL, my initial plan had been to use the station car-park and walk to the hall from there. However, one does need to be sure to be back there before the car-park is locked after the last train! Otherwise, park on the road I would assume to be sure.

This then brings two questions. Firstly, if the 'extra' DMU does run, then when will the BL car-park be locked, as presumably that will be later than the normal scheduled Sat closure? Secondly, if the AGM over-runs, and/or there is the 'members discussion forum' afterwards, when does the hire extension kindly arranged by the WSRAMAG run out?

Any potential Trustee who wishes to canvass my vote by buying me a coffee + cake in the Whistle Stop beforehand is welcome to try....

 

Yes I do have the proof and I object strongly to your implication that I am lying. Likewise the same source gave me the QB figures. Why don't you ask your cronies in the WSRA?

 

On your first point effectively yes. Without Network Rail there would have been no triangle or it would have taken far longer to become operational. Though it works both ways because it has meant the WSRA has also got the bulk of the raw materials to construct the triangle and Network Rail have a useful facility to turn rolling stock. Of course it means that the railway has gained a very important feature that would not otherwise have been possible. A classic case of how the three organisations are benefiting and complimenting each other.

 

Steady on, no-one is saying you are lying. Just that you didn't say you had the documentation in your first reply. Will you email the docs? On the QB figures, perhaps you could provide me with the details? Just trying to get to the bottom of the claims, that's all.

Steve

 

I was given the information but in order to protect my exact source I am not able to,comply with your request to send you a copy. You can always ask David Williams to confirm or deny it. That assumes that you can get an answer from him.

 

you cannot argue with this Steve because is exactly the same as you do.
BTW you do come over as very aggressive which will do your chances of being elected no good at all.

 

How many Quantock Belle ran in 2013? The "Diner Train Haulage" figure appears in the WSRplc accounts, and hence everybody can work out how much per train and form their own idea as to how the costs and payment compare. (From this year, most are daytime - do they run instead of a booked service or an an extra train?)

(Rather more dignified than yet another round of "I know but can't say", "I don't believe you - prove what you say" - I can see future WSRA Board Meeting could be a bundle of laughs if not achieving very much if both sides continue this in person - let's hope they are like many of us and different in person to on the internet)

Steven

 

Generally speaking QB's run as an additional service in the diagram. They don't replace anything. Daytime (Sunday or midweek) QB's generally depart BL at 13.00 and return as last train out of MD requiring a slightly longer working day than if they did not run. Evening QB's run later than normal services and require the railway to be operational for a lot longer into the evening. But the same is true for MM's and Ale trains and Carol trains etc. Some QB's are of course diesel hauled so I don't know if the loco charges for those are in the plc figures.

 

Unlike your(nearly said our) set, there is no extra accommodation for non dining passengers.

 

What is the length of the QB these days (ignoring the inspection saloon which I know can be tacked on if required)?

 

You're right. I do! I cannot argue. I just felt if there was written evidence it could clear this matter up. But I see Beanie has suggested one way of getting the hire figure. I think this year there are about c24 QBs, some of them diesel, but there were a few more in 2013 (eg the three diesel-hauled Weds lunch time trains and maybe others). So using the Plc's published figures, the hire fees are in excess of well over £1000 Plc income per QB which is close to the WSRA's answer to me. More than happy to be corrected on my sums.

Sorry if I come over as aggressive. I'm quite a nice chap really...

Steve

 

in response to Dave.b, Aries(RMB)+Orion(RUB)+Meteor(FO)+Phoenix(BCKstaff)+ possibly Jupiter (generator brake)> Just done a count up- 20 trips in all forms of use/haulage between May and year end 2014. there probably a few more in 2013. The PLC has expenditure in providing the loco (mileage/ steaming fee etc),coal, including warmup previous day, and other costs- so PLC income should not be seen as profit.

 

Hmmm. I struggle with the above as consistent statements.

My commitment to openness has been plain here - I started this thread, and ask me a question and I will answer it to the best of my ability. When previously serving, I always tried to answer any question put, on the basis that, whatever I thought of it, the question was important to the questioner.

The present WSRA Trustees have been (rightly) criticised for not being open and transparent. They haven't been. But no doubt they might think the approach to them has been 'counter-productive, unhelpful and unconstructive'. Not a good reason for remaining silent. Yet the WSRAMAG 4 have made a conscious decision not to engage in public debate and that is OK.......?

Do members feel that answers from a 'spokesman / men' for the candidates, who thereby maintain a 'lofty detachment' is consistent with a 'key principle of openness and transparency'?

Sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander. Or you pays your subscription and you gets your vote.....

kind regards

Robin White

 

It most certainly was a splendid example of how three organisations can, through constructive and creative dialogue, work (and still do) to mutual benefit.

Steve

 

Correct it's not "profit" it's income. Out of which all the costs of operating the loco over the line have to be taken.
BTW there are some "non-dining" seats on some QB's available exclusively to WSRA members.

 

So about 25 to 28 QBs in 2013, and the haulage charge was £35k per WSRplc accounts - so just between £1,250 and £1,400 per trip. Does the loco need to run Light engine to BL to take the train and back afterwards or can it be worked in to the diagrams?

Tiffer's reference to (y)our set (it is every bit as much yours and mine, Chris - you're the one who qualifies for the 40 year service badge when the next batch are produced!) is the NYMR's Moorlander set. This has 3 non-diners on the back, so the whole formation is 3 Pullmans and a Mark 1 RF seating up to 108 diners plus usually a Mark 1 SO (overflow/relief dining accommodation), a brake and either a TSO (preferable) or SK - at the moment, a TSO as the Saturday night trips are Grosmont to Battersby, so all vehicles need to be from the "mainline" fleet.

Steven

 

Sorry Robin I thought the PLC were the operator I did not realise.