If you register, you can do a lot more. And become an active part of our growing community. You'll have access to hidden forums, and enjoy the ability of replying and starting conversations.

Standard 8MT 2-8-2 New Build

الموضوع في 'Steam Traction' بواسطة pete2hogs, بتاريخ ‏31 جويلية 2014.

  1. Spamcan81

    Spamcan81 Nat Pres stalwart

    إنضم إلينا في:
    ‏25 أوت 2007
    المشاركات:
    36,013
    عدد المعجبين:
    22,560
    الوظيفة:
    Training moles
    مكان الإقامة:
    The back of beyond
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    Brighton Baltic tanks out of Barry? Some wires crossed here I think.
     
  2. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

    إنضم إلينا في:
    ‏8 مارس 2008
    المشاركات:
    28,158
    عدد المعجبين:
    66,080
    مكان الإقامة:
    LBSC 215
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    Que? 3 Brighton baltics came out of Barry?

    Tom
     
  3. CH 19

    CH 19 Well-Known Member Friend

    إنضم إلينا في:
    ‏30 ديسمبر 2013
    المشاركات:
    1,276
    عدد المعجبين:
    653
    الجنس:
    ذكر
    الوظيفة:
    Hospital Porter
    مكان الإقامة:
    W14
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    And all three in umber ooohhh yes please (just like big E4`s eh)
     
  4. class8mikado

    class8mikado Part of the furniture

    إنضم إلينا في:
    ‏1 جوان 2009
    المشاركات:
    3,881
    عدد المعجبين:
    1,667
    الوظيفة:
    Print Estimator/ Repository of Useless Informatio.
    مكان الإقامة:
    Bingley W.Yorks.
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Guess because unbraked wagons place a limit on speed , therefore larger driving wheels are not an advantage. therefore a wide firebox can go on top of a driving wheel - more driving wheels = better adhesion both in starting and braking.
    Theres no question that in respect of heavy freight the 9f's are excellent locomotives and better in many respects than the 2-8-0's and 0-8-0's they replaced and absoloutely should have been built perhaps with the smaller 4ft 8.5 wheels as a specialist machine.
    My question is, as a general utility loco ie a 'Black 7', would a 2-8-2 with say 5ft 6 inch drivers have been a better substitute than a brittania/clan for the various regional class 6's and 7's.
    I think Yes.
    So did Riddles.
     
    أعجب بهذه المشاركة andalfi1
  5. nickt

    nickt Member

    إنضم إلينا في:
    ‏17 إبريل 2009
    المشاركات:
    490
    عدد المعجبين:
    264
    الجنس:
    ذكر
    So do I, but if we're building the Black 7 and the Leader*, the question is which shall we do first?

    * see: http://railways.national-preservati...xhibition-at-steam-centre.318004/#post-909271
     
  6. class8mikado

    class8mikado Part of the furniture

    إنضم إلينا في:
    ‏1 جوان 2009
    المشاركات:
    3,881
    عدد المعجبين:
    1,667
    الوظيفة:
    Print Estimator/ Repository of Useless Informatio.
    مكان الإقامة:
    Bingley W.Yorks.
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Two different problems - a Br standard 2-8-2 - Combining bits of two ( or more) loco designs that worked ( and changing a couple of things that did but only just in the process) ...
    or Taking something that didn't work and turning it into something that does ( would anyone out there actually want to fire a leader ? )

    Could either of these become the 'Nat Pres Loco' ? Feel a poll coming on ?
     
  7. Martin Perry

    Martin Perry Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator Friend

    إنضم إلينا في:
    ‏15 إبريل 2006
    المشاركات:
    16,553
    عدد المعجبين:
    7,905
    مكان الإقامة:
    1012 / 60158
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    If it was set up for oil-firing as originally intended, then yes :)
     
  8. class8mikado

    class8mikado Part of the furniture

    إنضم إلينا في:
    ‏1 جوان 2009
    المشاركات:
    3,881
    عدد المعجبين:
    1,667
    الوظيفة:
    Print Estimator/ Repository of Useless Informatio.
    مكان الإقامة:
    Bingley W.Yorks.
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Burns oil and is box shaped.... class 47 ?
     
    Hampshire Unit و steamvideosnet معجبون بهذا.
  9. RalphW

    RalphW Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Administrator Friend

    إنضم إلينا في:
    ‏11 سبتمبر 2005
    المشاركات:
    36,663
    عدد المعجبين:
    10,047
    الجنس:
    ذكر
    الوظيفة:
    Retired-ish, Part time rail tour steward.
    مكان الإقامة:
    Northwich
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Sounds like a Red Devil......
     
    Sheff, Martin Perry و Kje7812 معجبون بهذا.
  10. Martin Perry

    Martin Perry Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator Friend

    إنضم إلينا في:
    ‏15 إبريل 2006
    المشاركات:
    16,553
    عدد المعجبين:
    7,905
    مكان الإقامة:
    1012 / 60158
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
  11. RalphW

    RalphW Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Administrator Friend

    إنضم إلينا في:
    ‏11 سبتمبر 2005
    المشاركات:
    36,663
    عدد المعجبين:
    10,047
    الجنس:
    ذكر
    الوظيفة:
    Retired-ish, Part time rail tour steward.
    مكان الإقامة:
    Northwich
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    So why build a new one, bring one of those over here, just a small job of regauging, a job for Alf's team, and away we go.....:D
     
  12. Martin Perry

    Martin Perry Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator Friend

    إنضم إلينا في:
    ‏15 إبريل 2006
    المشاركات:
    16,553
    عدد المعجبين:
    7,905
    مكان الإقامة:
    1012 / 60158
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    Because all the NYC Niagaras were scrapped in the 1950s. They were already standard gauge by the way :)
     
  13. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

    إنضم إلينا في:
    ‏8 مارس 2008
    المشاركات:
    28,158
    عدد المعجبين:
    66,080
    مكان الإقامة:
    LBSC 215
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    Wot, like one of these?

    [​IMG]

    (Non-"streamlined" versions available to taste ...)

    Another "spread the wheels" job, I'm afraid ;) Though on the plus side, you can have a booster truck on some variants for a bit of "Honiton flattening"...

    Tom
     
    أعجب بهذه المشاركة Martin Perry
  14. RalphW

    RalphW Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Administrator Friend

    إنضم إلينا في:
    ‏11 سبتمبر 2005
    المشاركات:
    36,663
    عدد المعجبين:
    10,047
    الجنس:
    ذكر
    الوظيفة:
    Retired-ish, Part time rail tour steward.
    مكان الإقامة:
    Northwich
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Oops still thinking South Africa NC25s
     
  15. 242A1

    242A1 Well-Known Member

    إنضم إلينا في:
    ‏3 ديسمبر 2006
    المشاركات:
    1,563
    عدد المعجبين:
    1,310
    In one very important way a 2-8-2 is superior to a 4-8-4. The percentage of locomotive weight used as adhesive weight. Then you look at the 9f. An even larger percentage.

    Given that dead axles have to be driven along (world's greatest offender - the Allegheny class) they should be avoided if possible.

    As many countries made use of the 2-8-2 and the UK built pitifully few of them for domestic use it is easy to understand the attraction. The obvious question is how much power do you want? If you design for a 22 ton axle load then a T.E. little short of 50,000lb can be aimed for with a 2 cylinder design and more with a three cylinder. Standards, with one exception, being 2 cylinder I'll stick with that number so you just need to juggle the usual parameters around to get where you want. But as T.E. is only part of the question, how much horsepower do you need? This is where you may reach a tipping point with two cylinders within the U.K. loading gauge and a maximum boiler pressure of 300psi. And there is still the question of working speed limits.

    2-8-2s did make good mixed traffic locomotives 141P, 141R etc. If anyone were to argue that such a design was the one Standard class that should have been built they could well have a very good case. Which, I suppose makes for a worthy new build subject.
     
    class8mikado و andalfi1 معجبون بهذا.
  16. huochemi

    huochemi Part of the furniture

    إنضم إلينا في:
    ‏6 ماي 2008
    المشاركات:
    3,095
    عدد المعجبين:
    1,569
    الجنس:
    ذكر
    مكان الإقامة:
    UK
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Complete with "Tangmere stirrup".
     
  17. baldric

    baldric Member

    إنضم إلينا في:
    ‏28 يناير 2008
    المشاركات:
    312
    عدد المعجبين:
    50
    Having re-read it I now realize the recreation was not about the links to the GWR 72s. Oops.
     
  18. class8mikado

    class8mikado Part of the furniture

    إنضم إلينا في:
    ‏1 جوان 2009
    المشاركات:
    3,881
    عدد المعجبين:
    1,667
    الوظيفة:
    Print Estimator/ Repository of Useless Informatio.
    مكان الإقامة:
    Bingley W.Yorks.
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Good stuff. - unfortunately theres no action without reaction, there is s evidence that whilst the mis-appropriated frame design on the large standards (plus 2 cylinders tis a mismatch) - worked ok with 5 sets of conventional axle boxes to take the thrust, it suffered somewhat with three sets of roller bearing axles, the slide bar design perhaps suspect too. So in order to handle the 300 psi it would probably be 3 cylinders or a major rethink into the frame design ( bar frames perhaps as originally mooted). The smaller wheels would translate into an impressively high TE ( and it would really p*ss on the p2 's Britains most powerful chips if it was 44,000:p) I am of a mind that the Brittania boiler with a decent exhaust could generate more steam than two 20 inch cylinders could use, and this amount of power would be acceptable with four pairs of axleboxes and the limitations of adhesion Increasing the psi even to 275-280 would of course take the loco into a different league but the lubrication systems, boiler and fittings would also go beyond the limits of widely available expertise in the uk
     
  19. mickpop

    mickpop Resident of Nat Pres

    إنضم إلينا في:
    ‏18 جوان 2010
    المشاركات:
    6,408
    عدد المعجبين:
    5,603
    الجنس:
    ذكر
    الوظيفة:
    Retired
    مكان الإقامة:
    Cheshire
    Does Wardale's modified QJ 2-10-2 still exist in China? Will already have some of the bits and bobs for a thoroughly modern engine. Importing scrap from China [instead of crap] would be a first!:)
     
  20. Spamcan81

    Spamcan81 Nat Pres stalwart

    إنضم إلينا في:
    ‏25 أوت 2007
    المشاركات:
    36,013
    عدد المعجبين:
    22,560
    الوظيفة:
    Training moles
    مكان الإقامة:
    The back of beyond
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    He dabbled with two QJs. QJ7036 was a conventional machine rebuild to his principles and then returned to original spec. 8001 was built new to Wardale's specification and then retired to Datong museum.
     

مشاركة هذه الصفحة