Rebuilt Patriot and Rebuilt Scot

Sorry if this has been answered before, I did search but couldn't find a previous thread.

Am I right in thinking that after rebuilding with the 2A to type boiler, the LMS Royal Scot and Patriot were essentially identical?

My reasoning is that the Patriot was a Scot chassis with a Large Claughton boiler. Hence if the boiler was replaced with the same boiler as the one used to replace the Scot boiler they should end up the same...

I do know that these rebuilds were very extensive and it is debatable how much of the Fowler locos were left...

 

Does that also extend to the two rebuilt Jubilees 45735/6...
I too have wondered the differences between a Rebuilt Jubilee, Rebuilt Scot and Rebuilt Patriot ?

 

There were a few constructional details which differed, notably in the Scots having thicker frames than the Baby Scots or Jubilees, as before rebuilding. This meant that these could accept lower stresses, so their cylinders were one inch smaller in diameter than the Scots. It would be difficult to notice any difference in performance, though, and many drivers preferred the Rebuilt Patriots.

 

To most extents then a Rebuilt Scot, Jubilee and Patriot were the same animal...
Was there a reason behind why Scots were 7P.. and Jubilees 6P and Patriots 6P5F...

 

The rebuilds were 7P, though.

 

Yes, all three were Classed as 7P in BR post 1951 days, Class 6P before this. The UNrebuilt Patriots (and Jubilees) had been 5XP but reclassed as 6P at the same time, so always one class below the Scots and rebuilds.

 

Thanks for the responses.

 

I always get confused about those LMS classifications especially with BR then changing them.
For example I believe what everyone calls an 8F was actually 7F when built?

 

It's quite simple. The LMS "5" classification covered rather too much of a range of ability so the upper end of the range became "5X". BR made the "5X" into "6" and promoted the original "6" and "7" to "7" and "8".

 

For a few months only. When built in 1935, the first 12 were initially classified as 7Fs. This was altered to 8F in November 1935. So, the vast majority of the Class were always 8Fs.

 

They should be called "As built"

 

True. Reclassing was far from unknown. The Horwich Crabs started as 4F, 5P4F in 1928, 5P5F in 1940. In 1955, BR reclassed them as 6P5F - this was for accountancy purposes only - and later again 5MT.

 

Sorry! Non-rebuilt? Doesn't really sound much better!

 

Original?

Tom

 

Well, yes, Tom, but the Baby Scots were themselves rebuilt Claughtons, at least in theory! And of course, the Claughtons had themselves been rebuilt with bigger boilers...

 

The cr4p version? <cough> GWR never had to do any major rebuilds of their classes (I suspect this will be disproven showing my lack of knowledge)

 

72XXs.

 

Blast, I did know about them, and forgot. Not exactly a prestige passenger loco though...