Pre Mk1 Non Corridor Carriages GWR

Hello,
Would be interesting to know what wagons Mr G owns........
The Fund got a few he missed..........

 

Oh God knows. Apparently some of the wagons rotting away at Winchcombe are old American ones... But they're all heritage, so must be saved In fact, I think it's one of those rare occasions where I might agree with PaulHitch's views on scrap, some of it is so far gone and of so little relevance or importance that it might as well go. the GW suburbans on the other hand, certainly not, even though they are in the worst state

 

Come on! Be daring. It will do both yourself and your railway's image/financial state a great deal of good. Use the money so released to do up the rest.

PH

 

You'll be pleased to know that in order to hide Mr Goodman's extended scrapyard we built a nice paint shop in front of it so no one can see We wouldn't get a lot of money from them as they are owned by Andrew Goodman, a now ex-director of the board who has done a lot for the railway, so his choice, not the railway's. But as I said, the only view it spoils is the C+W volunteer when we're having a cuppa

 

Glad to hear about the paint shop, sad to learn that that the old fragmented ownership problem is preventing hard decisions being taken as to the future. It's nearly fifty years since the "everyday" steam railway ceased in the U.K. and I don't think it is unreasonable to expect these hard decisions to have been taken by now.

PH

 

Hello,
If this is one



http://www.ws.vintagecarriagestrust.org/ws/WagonInfo.asp?Ref=9199

It would be a great shame to see scrapped.


Nick

 

Nope, not that, I believe something that looks vaguely like that might be in Hunting Butts Tunnel along with some other bits and pieces. They hoiked it all out recently, Jo/Breva might know. I was referring to some of the wagons stored at Winchcombe next to the heritage coaches, all equally dilapidated. IIRC, some are American box van type things, and there is one or two brake vehicles of some sort as well, not sure which ones. Either way, IMO they don't really have a future. Restoring a far gone heritage carriage is far more worth it than a far gone wagon from another country if you ask me...

Aah, help, I've been talking to PH too much recently! To counter balance though, I wouldn't want the coaches scrapped, at least one day they might have some heritage value. And anyway, I prefer heritage GWR coaches to some random American vans

 

Hence the air of reality creeping in. They either have heritage value or they do not.

PH

 

Hello,
Do you mean this:

http://www.ws.vintagecarriagestrust.org/ws/WagonInfo.asp?Ref=9258


.???????????..??
Nick

 

That's the one! That and a few others on the same piece of (unconnected) track. Burn it, Burn them all!

 

Hello,
Mmmmmmm....
Interesting response......
Take some photos of these burnable (?) vehicles and post them...,

Nick

 

Oh go on then, I'll try next time I'm there. The workshop manager already thinks I have a strange obsession with the GW coaches! I really can't see a future for them. the USA wagon is of no interest historically, the brake van or two in terrible condition aren't rarities as far as I know. I think that the picture in this entry shows some of the other wagons in the same area. As I said, it's all a bit of a mystery. It was a surprise to some that the coach previously assumed to be one of the GW ones turned out to be LMS, and some didn't even know there were two GW carriages hidden in the mess at all!

 

Hello,
The USA wagon:

How about doing some research into its origins,why is it in the Uk,what was is used for...etc..
Rather than 'Burn it'?
It might have a History......unlike the usual BR Mk1 coach that seems to be Standard on heritage lines

Nick

 

The "Burn it" comment was done a little tongue in cheek. I can't seem to find any other information about it other than what's on the VCT entry. It was ex-battlefield line, if anyone from there knows anything about it? Also of note Mr Goodman (I presume, it's listed as being at Wishaw) owns another USA wagon, this one an open. You can find some of Mr Goodman's other stock on the VCT as it lists Wishaw as a loacation. ones on the GWSR aren't differentiated between what the railway owns though, but some are easy to spot...

 

Thanks for that. So maybe better in the hands of the IWM? It's not really something relevant to the GWSR anyway.

 

What is it you have against it, just because it's from the US ?
A wagon is hardly a massive consumer of space, and "yet another box van in a freight train" is hardly rare.. its highly likely as a wagon it's been used on the mainline in some form or other since the war on a mixed freight.. so its hardly a wagon that doesn't fit the image.

On that basis a restored US manufactured wagon on a freight train would be much more interesting historically than another 16t mineral.

There really aren't many US built wagons in Europe (not just the UK), and even more rare globally in that it's a wagon built for non-US Spec (this wagon has buffers/screw links etc) and so would need considerable modification to be used in North / South America/China and other parts of Asia where wagons of such type are more native... that on it's own makes it interesting... consider the cost of shipping a wagon from the US to the UK and why that would be deemed cost worthy considering we used to be a nation of under utilised railway equipment including mass under utilisation / lack of standardisation for wagons....(According to Nazi observations on the UK railway network in the late 1930's).

Put another way.. if the GWSR doesn't want it... i'm sure there would be several interested takers who would appreciate it more than "just being american"

 

Bit of an overreaction there! Nothing against US stock per se, but it's the same reason the few UK bits and pieces (eg the gwr coach imported back to the wsr and the neglect found on the A4s when repatriated) that found their way to the US weren't really cared for, they weren't relevant to their respective collections. That's why I suggested maybe the IWM or similar, as it would be more relevant as a wagon imported for war purposes than it possibly being displaced there after its main use had ceased. It would be more likely to be restored at an institute such as the IWM where it could display its original purpose. Is that not unreasonable? It's not for the GWSR to want or not want anyway, as it's PO.

 

Don't take it personally! You're not alone in thinking that anything that originated outside this country is of no interest, but it's an attitude that I find depressing.

The van in question is one of thousands of vehicles, box-cars and gondolas (opens), that were brought over from America prior to D-Day.
They arrived in kit form and were assembled at the part-built LT depot at Hainault (and, possibly, other locations) and exactly 70 years ago the operation to move them to Europe was in full swing. A few, including the examples mentioned in this thread, survived at British MOD locations and Andrew Goodman's examples may now be unique, in the UK at least.

So yes, they are historically significant in that they are part of one of the most important events of the 20th century. Which is more than can be said if most coaches, GWR or otherwise.

 

An interesting point here; in 1944 there was an urgent need for wagons, initially in France. In theory there was spare availability in Britain, but in practice much of the British wagon stock was very run-down by 1944 and in any case it was largely non-standard in Britain, let alone Europe.
Britain did make a major contribution to solving the problem however, though with mixed results. The Ministry of Supply ordered 7000 steel open wagons, on behalf of SNCF (there were Free French SNCF people here), from British wagon manufacturers. These had RCH underframes of the same type as 16ton minerals, but French design bodies, with "cupboard" doors. They were shipped to France between 1944 and 46, but the French didn't like them- they were too small, short wheel-base, no air-brakes, non- standard axle-boxes- anyway, between 1949 and 51 they were all sent back! BR refurbished them and they were put into general traffic, but they still caused problems- for instance British railwaymen were unfamiliar with the cupboard doors which, if not latched properly, were prone to swing open and foul trains on the opposite track. A couple survive, one with the NRM and one at Mangapps.
The American vehicles, on the other hand, were approximately of the continental standard length and wheelbase and could easily be fitted with A/B (if they were not fitted already). Their simple construction had a direct influence on post-war continental wagon design and, eventually, even in Britain.