Pre Mk1 Non Corridor Carriages GWR

Oh dear. Be careful what you dismiss as junk. This American Van is quite an historic artefact I believe. No doubt some forumites better schooled in such things can confirm or deny but aforementioned Van is one of several which came over to the UK along with the S160 2-8-0s as part of the Allied War effort so I believe. It therefore has at least some value. As I say, someone with more knowledge than I could confirm this perhaps? (They probably already have by the time I've posted
this!) The nascent military railway museum at Long Marston would be interested in it maybe. I won't enter the argument as to whether something or other should or shouldn't be saved. However, I do recall back in the very early 1980s that some people quite prominent in railway preservation circles said that the Honeybourne Line at Toddington should not be saved. Its a funny old world.

 

For the "just burn it" brigade: about thirty-odd years ago, the Bluebell scrapped two wagons (wooden bodied private owner open mineral wagons with grease axle boxes) that are now an acquisition target of the historic wagon strategy, but reckoned to now be very difficult to fulfil, if possible at all. By modern standards, both would now be considered restorable, had the metalwork been saved.

I'm not aware that the proceeds from the scrapman had a transformational - or even noticeable - effect on finances, either, despite what has been suggested as a rationale for a clear out.

Once it's gone, it's gone...

Tom

 

I feel I have been taken out of context here. I only said "burn it" as a tongue in cheek comment! If my later posts were read then you'd see that after learning what it was and its significance I suggested perhaps it could he restored somewhere more appropriate. The tenuous link about it could have gonevinto general mainline service justifying it being on the GWSR was a bit rubbish I felt.

 

Hello,
For Tom


What two were these?

Nick

 

Given just how much of the freight in this country was moved by rail - indeed some routes started out that way ! - waggons are woefully under-represented and restored wooden ones are almost as rare as hens teeth.
As with any restoration - all you need is the will, money, skills and materials - waggons are not that difficult !

 

Quite right! Restoring a wagon takes a fraction of the skill, effort and cash required to restore a carriage. It's perfectly true that a carriage is a direct money earner, but I suggest that this misses the point; as preservationists we should be aiming to recreate the railways of the past. In my recollection of the past, you saw far more evidence of goods traffic, even on mainly passenger lines, than actual passenger trains. Apart from goods trains travelling along the line, every station yard and intermediate siding would contain various wagons, yet how many heritage railways succeed, or even seriously try, to to recreate this aspect of the past, apart from the all to prevalent rotting hulks. It's all very well spending tens, or even hundreds, of thousands of pounds restoring ancient, but high-cost, coaching stock, then taking your customers for a ride through an environment that lacks one of the most essential ingredients of a traditional railway.
The wooden open coal wagon which, until the late '50s, was to be seen everywhere, has almost vanished; in another 10 years the same may be said of most other types of traditional wagon. As Jamessquared says, once it's gone, it's gone!

 

This is a theme that i think could be applied to most heritage railways> Wagon preservation has become more prevalent in recent times, but for most lines the wagon situation is somewhat akin to Mk 1 carriages - The majority of preserved wagons are BR Box vans and the like, because they are useful for storage. Open wagons for general merchandise and minerals like coal are less common because they are less useful in the heritage railway setting. What's more, some lines seem to have an irrational fear/dislike of wooden underframes and non-vac fitted wagons> I'd like to see more of both!

 

SVR had 14 of these at one stage mostly from British Sugar, and they only have 4 left with 3 wrecks and 1 in very good condition.

 

Hello,
There is a very good possiblity that one of the wrecks on the SVR might be going to a very good home for lots of TLC.
Can not say any more at the moment ...will keep Nat Pres updated...

Nick

The Fund is still looking for a Brake van stove.......anyone?

 

Unfortunately, the few remaining wooden waggons are usually at the back of the restoration queue.
Something that I think should change, but then I have a bit of a vested interest - I restore things!

Worked on two for the Bowes Railway a while ago
http://www.ipernity.com/doc/312383/album/406363 and http://www.ipernity.com/doc/312383/album/406343

Our usual fare, if such exists, are wooden bodied carriages .................. As yet, I don't think we've done the same job twice, similar work, yes, but not a full repeat .......

 

A complete rebuild in just 4 months including the repaint shows what can be done when you get down to it well done.

 

Your comments may have been tongue in cheek but there are plenty of so-called preservationists who care not a jot for things outside their own narrow sphere of interest, and plenty of people in positions of influence at heritage railways who have no interest in the vehicles (or indeed other artifacts) beyond their ability to 'put bums on seats'. Having "saved" all of this stuff once already it is a sad fact that one of the biggest threats to the continued survival and eventual restoration of many of these vehicles, is the preservation movement itself.

I like the idea of a railway (like the Bluebell) which owns virtually all it's own stock but that model isn't going to work for everyone. On the GCR the majority of wagons are privately owned but for the most part have a clear plan for restoration or are operating and maintained. The company owned vehicles tend to be engineering vehicles and probably don't receive the same level of love that the privately owned ones do, and I'm pretty sure that without the privately owned ones we wouldn't have the ability to run demonstration goods trains in the way that we do. (Windcutters excepted, though they are owned by the supporting trust not the company.)

Carriages are a bit different but we have many privately owned ones (mainly but not exclusively owned by about 3 people), working turn and turn about with the company owned vehicles, and I don't believe it causes any real problems other than the occasional grumble about whose carriage is fixed next. The fact is that the railway would not have been able to acquire these coaches, had those individuals not stepped up with the finance. Another fact is that when one of these gents decided to sell some of his carriages a few years ago, he sold them to the company to ensure their continued availability - then when the railway hit hard times a few years later it sold some of them on and they left the line! (Under previous management, I should add.) More recently we've been acquiring 'wrecks', essentially to replace what were pretty good coaches. So, sometimes company ownership is not the best way.


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