Flying Scotsman

Never knew flying scotsman was a tank engine!
Maybe you should take victors and franks advise and quit whilst your not ahead.

 

Well I think you should take my advice and stop being so pedantic! I want to see Scotsman running, It will be too for the olympic torch! theres no doubt I expressed a strong remark to make a point make people listen! You definitely listened but then you got petty! haha sorry billy big time!

 

Another point I couldn't agree more with, I mean people may complain about it taking so much time and money, but lets look at the facts here.

4472 has not had the easiest of times in preservation because of it's greatest strength and weakness, it's fame and popularity. Let's face it, one way or another Flying Scotsman has been a constant presence in british steam operation, in fact as far as I can see, it's rarely been absent for an overhaul.

That locomotive has been working it's axles off non stop. Heck it even travelled to America, and while visiting Australia, on the 8th of August 1989 Flying Scotsman set a record, by travelling 442 miles (711 km) from Parkes to Broken Hill non-stop, the longest such run by a steam locomotive ever recorded. All this from an engine that was built in 1923 and has not rested it's laurels since.

There are some out there who aren't fond of Flying Scotsman, who say it's overhyped, too expensive, and more of a nuisance then a legend... But this is a locomotive that has done more then most others could ever claim, and in truth, throughout it's whole preservation career it has performed brilliantly without little if any fuss (or if it has I haven't heard of it.) Only in the final years, while in NRM's care, had it started to develop an unreliable reputation, and considering it's performance and acomplishments throughout it's entire preservation life, that's an incredible achievement.

So I sum up with this, I'm not at all surprised that it's taking so much time and money to get 4472 back full health, and those who moan should remember that despite this engine's fame, it's still vulnerable to the same problems as any other engine, it's just that because of it's fame, people just don't like to see standing it still for long, even if it's for the benefit of the engine.

So I have full respect for Steve and his team, for giving the engine the treatment it deserves, but most importantly, I, and I think others should, have respect and appreciation for the locomotive itself, because there's no doubt in my mind that it's earned it's place in preservation, this major overhaul, and some...

No. 4472 Flying Scotsman, it's a world famous legend for a reason... And to me... One of the finest steam locomotives in history...

 

I am surprised that Steve Davies said it in the first place, was always a hostage to fortune from then on. He hasn't been there long enough for it to be his fault, he inherited a right mess.

My concerns with all this, and I have donated over the years, is not with him but with those who have been there throughout. Surely someone has to carry the can, or at least apologise for what has gone wrong so that lessons can be taken from the mistakes made. At nearly £5m a repeat cannot be in anyone's interest, just think of all the overhauls that could have been done for that much money. In any other public organisation heads would roll, maybe this will happen but will a repeat be avoided?

And I feel for the guys at Barrow Hill. It appears from the quotes in the newspaper article that the NRM have basically said our event is more important than yours so sorry you can't have it. Very unpleasant and not a little selfish.

 

You're quite right there. There seems to be a certain amount of hypocrisy in some people's attutudes to 4472 (dare I suggest it, possibly influenced by the railway press...?) People say, "what's so special about 4472? She hasn't got any original components left anyway. Let's stuff and mount her." Meanwhile, in other threads people say "why can't we see Lode Star/City of Birmingham/L&B coach No. 2 running again?"

Pendennis Castle's overhaul has overrun its orginally-announced completion date by even longer than Scotsman; I've yet to hear any criticism of the GWS for this. Similarly, 6023, 6100 and 34059 have all had major defects discovered shortly after their long-running overhauls were supposed to have been completed. Questions have certainly been asked among the enthusiast community, but I haven't seen anything like the vitriol that the NRM has faced over 4472.

Admittedly, 4472 is publicly owned, and the price of failure is always higher when taxpayers' money is at stake. Nevertheless, my point is that, mechanically, 4472 has the same problems as any other old steam engine. Engines in the private sector repeatedly throw up unpleasant surprises; we can't expect any less from 4472. And we certainly haven't seen any suggestions that 6023, 6100 or 34059 should now be permanantly stuffed and mounted - yet it seems to have become almost fashionable to make that suggestion for Scotsman.

4472 gets the same treatment from enthusiasts as human celebrities get from the tabloid press (and its readership): adored, as long as she doesn't put a foot wrong. Unfortunately, in the real world we can't expect either humans or steam engines to be perfect 100% of the time.

 

I totally agree with all your points!

 

I wonder, in another thread, its stated that there is to be an 100 mph run, in connection with the NRM Now, am i putting 2+2 together here?
lets say for instance that the plan is for 4472 to be a reserve loco for this, or even the actual loco then the extra work being done makes sence, so that if needed to she would be mechanically more than capable to do the ton, she's got what is almost a new boiler, and now the bottom end will be almost as new also , come on york , own up, your planning to take 4472 upto the ton arnt you, actually im joking , or am i?

 

Have you been reading the "comics" again? Mind you, she will be de-bugged and well run-in by 2013 and it would be one hell of a way of grabbing centre stage again to say nothing of making folk forget the overhaul problems.

 

Please Noooooo - to risk damage to it after all that work?? Madness.

Leave it to an A4.

 

Agreed, no point in risking all that hard work.

I wonder if A3's had the warning capsule of something smelly fitted to the middle big-end to indicate to the driver that it was getting hot? (and if so. is it so fitted to 4472?)

 

It'd be great to see 4472 at 100mph but the NRM would be foolish to try it after all the hard work they'd put in. Let it do long runs, non-stop, if they're going to put it through its paces as it's what it is famous for.

 

Do'h! Anyway, even after a thorough overhaul I think putting a 90 year old locomotive which has had millions spent on it should probably not be pushed to quite that spped so early on. Could they 100mph with Tornado?

 

I know this is not Scotsman related but 100mph related. I say put a Duchess on the East Coast mainline.

 

FS or anything else, 100mph with a steam locomotive will never happen again.
Just my opinion.

 

I know several locomotive caretakers who take the view that they would not wish to participate in regular running above 75 MPH.

 

Steve Davies said it would be a nice idea in NRM Review to do a "dramatic one off" - speed (100mph) - this is what Steam Railway has quoted - and the speed only came into the Steam Railway article through Jeremy Hosking, who was also quoted as saying that he "hadn't been approached" and the idea as he had heard it was "high speed or 100mph".

The idea for a one off high speed run to mark Mallard's anniversary is a nice one, but is it worth the hassle in paperwork to organise? Would not a commemorative run down stoke bank behind a certain other garter blue A4 suffice? Not that I am saying "don't try" - railway preservation is all about having a go where others would not - but is it worth the time and effort when a standard, 75mph tops railtour would do the same job of commemoration with less paperwork and mechanical headaches?

 

"Dramatic one-off"? Can't see Network Rail allowing a one-off without loads of main-line testing beforehand (with all the associated costs and risks).

Maybe they want to recreate Mallard's record-breaking run as closely as possible, with big-end bearings running hot and and the loco going straight back into works afterwards?

Richard

 

Do you honestly believe thet no one in Network Rail is aware of what 60009 and 60007 have achieved over the last 20 or so years?

If you believe all you read about bearing problems you will vote for your own execution should it come to it. The engines are rather different today. The centre engine big end strap is much more rigid. The lubrication and bearing system is much improved. A4s cruise at 90mph +. it is what they were built to do. As for 4472, the engine has at least 500 extra hp available over what she had in the 1920s and 30s. Gresley himself believed that any of his pacifics were fit for high speed work. So if the NRM wanted to let the engine have a day at the races with seven coaches in tow the magic three figure mark should be a painless achievement. Getting sponsorship to cover costs should not be an insurmountable problem. So a few evenings worth of testing, diligent checking of the oil consumption (most important), good coal and a clear road; job done. If Mr Davies wants to go for it, why not?

If you want to play extra safe, get the co-operation of an A4 owner, with only 7 on, 100mph is possible on the level. The folk who will object the most are those whose allegiancies lie with other railway companies.