Jacobite 2023

According to Scot-rail.co.uk 45212 is going south to haul tours down south starting possibly with this Sunday’s Royal Duchy. On the same forum a staff member apparently said that they expect the Jacobite to resume this year.

 

SRPS are taking the time and money to update their stock which is good to know which makes this situation with the Jacobite all the more frustrating and deeply disappointing. I hope SRPS are able to have a bright and prosperous future from 2024 onwards after a difficult period since the pandemic.

 

Hadn't heard about it being on the Duchy, I believe it's heading to Carnforth to work the Nothern Belle due to the air brake requirements of that stock.

 

Is 45212 air braked?

 

I'm not against updating anything for safety reasons or technological advances. I've not even said I am against CDL or bars over droplights.

 

Can we not assume what I can and cannot comprehend here. I do not make my employment or academic history known online.

H&S laws and regs are not there to try and stop activities. They are there to ensure that activities are carried out in a safe manner.

Looking to past evidence is good practice when it comes to health and safety, after accidents and near misses, risk assessments should be reviewed based on previous history too as well as the incident itself.

The HSWA 1974 states ‘as far as reasonably practical’. Having secondary bolt locks is a reasonably practical way of ensuring a door doesn’t open on a moving train. If the ORR insist on having a steward at each door and WCRC can’t provide this, possibly due to financial restraints, then it’s not reasonably practical as it would make the operation unviable, but that’s not a reason to stop the activity according to HSWA 1974.

 

Yes

 

Telling a passenger to close the door and secure the lock and then not having a member of staff check that lock is dangerous. It’s not what the safety case says should be done. That’s the bottom line of it.

 

Technically it isn’t, it’s steam braked with an air pump and controls for working air braked trains.

 

Is it capable of operating an air braked train? Yes. Discussion done.

 

Perfectly summed up, thank you.

 

I would argue it is not safe at all to use as a handrail when alighting or boarding, as the door is not fastened, it would increase risk of falling between the train and the platform edge.

 

We know you would. I think you’d argue White is Blue

 

Well, is it safe Mr Saphos?

 

At what probability of an incident, and what cost to prevent that incident?

Risk management needs to be proportionate. I disagree strongly with @JBTEvans approach here, but think the question of proportionality is relevant to the question of whether CDL is necessary.

 

Proportionality is always a tough call and regulators in any industry always seem to err on the extreme side of caution.
Now I may agree that the passenger profile on The Jacobite and probably FS tours as well is way different to your average railtour. I also assume as I have not done FW to Mallaig since the days of BR but from memory CDL would work for a whole set as the platforms are the same or longer than the train.
What I do not get unless the ORR has decided it is not proportionate is why it is CDL and not SDO.
When I travel to London there are short platforms at Sway, New Milton and Clapham Junction, those doors not on the platform (and some that are) do not open. Yet as posters on here have stated that CDL with a sign that says door open is acceptable how are people stopped from "walking into thin air" where platforms are shorter than the train? I have read mention of stewards, but I knew some SD stewards and when they were taken over last years all the stewards were told they were no longer needed. I do not know if they have since been recalled or someone else (catering staff?) stewards.
In my work life we suffered the proportionality debate and in my view aircraft seats suffer form this. Although a thread drift anyone interested can have a read of this and decide if a vast amount of money was worth it for the result achieved. Bearing in mind no one can ever "prove" the result.
https://www.fire.tc.faa.gov/pdf/00-13.pdf

 

45699 now confirmed for the Duchy. Good point about the Northern Belle given that nothing other than Tangmere and Princess Elizabeth at Carnforth is air braked. 45212 filled in via the Cumbrian Coast late last year after the derailment at Petteril Bridge.

 

Im not Mr Saphos hahahaha. But I do much prefer them to WCRC.