Large Prairies

Who owns the various Large Prairies that are left ? I have the following but if anyone can clear it up I'd be much appreciated. Thanks in Advance.
• 5164 (Severn Valley Railway)
• 5199 (5199 Project Group, based at Llangollen Eailway)
• 4110 (Private Owner, based at Tyseley)
• 4121 (Private Owner, based at Tyseley)
• 4141 (Private Owner, based at Tyseley)
• 4144 (Didcot Railway Centre)
• 4150 (Severn Valley Railway)
• 4160 (4160 Ltd, based at the West Somerset Railway)
• 6106 (Didcot Railway Centre)

There is also 5193 and 4115 but I'm excluding them for '93 has been converted and '15 looks to have a bleak future.

 

4141 is Currently at Loughborough

Why is 4115's future bleak exactly ?.

 

For 4115;
http://railways.national-preservation.com/showthread.php/22792-NRM-Barry-Scrapyard

Cheers for info on 4141. I couldn''t remember if she moved or not to join the rest of JK's fleet at Tyseley.

 

4110 belongs to the GWRPG based at Southall although the engine is currently at Tysley.

http://www.gwrpg.co.uk/about-gwrpg/locomotives/

I think the plan is to tackle her after the overhaul of 9682 is complete.

 

Strictly speaking the SVR based 5164 & 4150 are not owned by the railway but are owned by funds set up for the purpose for each loco amongst folk based on the SVR.

The 4150 fund also owns the cylinder block complete from a long scrapped 61xx sister loco (6134?).

4156 was also "lost" in the 1980's when cut up by Woodham so to go on now and loose 4115 as well sounds rather careless!!!

 

Updated the list. Thanks for your assistance guys. Now though I have another query, what was the total number of Large Pairies built. I'm slightly confused with there being 3100, 5101 and 6100 types as to their eventual numbers. I have the following but I'm not too sure on it's accuracy.

209 Large Prairies were built by both the GWR and British Rail, including 50 3100s which were rebuilt from 1927 onwards. 50 5101s were ordered in 1927, with a further 50 being built including 40 by BR in 1948/49 under the 4100 numbering scheme. 70 6100 were also constructed between 1931 and 1935.

Any clarification much appreciated.

 

Large Praries (as opposed to small praries) is a little bit more complicated than that. There were:

3150 Class (no 4 boiler) (complicated history)
31xx (complicated history)
41xx - same as 51xx
51xx -
61xx- 51xx with 225lbs/sqin boiler
81xx - rebuilds of 3150 class but with smaller wheels (complicated history)

This may overlook some odd prototype locos with numbersfrom earlier sequences possibly later brought into line with the above.

 

I'm afraid it is indeed quite complicated !!

31xx Class originally 3100, 3111-3149 Introduced 1903. 5ft 8in drivers, No 2 boiler 200psi The prototype came out as no 99, later became 3100
3150 Class 3150-3190 Introduced 1906. Developed from original 31xx(later 51xx) No 4 boiler, 5ft 8in drivers, 200psi The tank version of the 43xx Moguls

51xx Class 5100, 5111-5149 Essentially the original 31xx Class renumbered in 1928 with some minor modfications and altered weight distribution
5101 Class 5101-5110, 5150-5199, 4100-4179 Introduced 1929. Developed from 51xx 5ft 8in drivers, no 2 boiler 200psi. 4160-79 had high superheat boilers
61xx Class 6100-6169 Introduced 1931 As 5101 class but with 225psi boiler
81xx Class 8100-8109 Introduced 1938 Rebuild of 51xx class with non-standard 5ft 6in drivers, no 2 boiler 225psi (for higher acceleration)
31xx Class 3100-3104 Introduced 1938 rebuild of 3150 Class, retaining no 4 boiler 225psi, smaller 5ft 3in drivers Mainly used as bankers

David

 

Thanks David, and Terry. I knew I was opening a can of worms so to speak but I am appreciative.

Just one last question if you are able to help, how many were built under BR ?

 

4160-4179 in 1948/9.

 

There one for the new Build thread, a new (1938) '31xx' class engine! ROAR!

 

4115 will never ever steam again... infact I'm pretty damn sure it'll be stripped for spare. I mean, their loads already in preservation and the amount it would cost to overhaul a heap of crap like that, well, its just not worth it!! Strip it for spares... Thats what I say!! Infact, thats all its good for!! Think about it, thats why nobodys restored it yet, cus its heap of crud thats worth nothing more than its scrap vallue...duhhhhhhh!

 

Her future might look bleak at the moment, and she might be likely used as spares, but a few locomotives that were in Barry condition didn't have much of a future to start with, e.g 80072 & 71000. Now they are running in their former pride!! If they crack on with 4115's restoration, I would be willing to pay a monthly contribution to ensure that she returns to steam, and many others, including yourself will no doubt agree with me.

 

I presume this is a polemic (or wind up) as there is much contentious stuff in a somewhat short post. However, "their loads" does not make grammatical sense (do you mean "there are loads"?) Define "loads" please. Nobody restored 4115, as it was, as you so charmingly put it, a heap of crud when compared to some others in Barry Yard (5199 was chosen instead of 4115 by a restoration group for example). 4115 is of course owned by the Vale of Glamorgan Council or whatever its called now and so the locomotives in its care are subject to public interest (they aren't owned by an individual or private group) so what is done or not done to them is the subject of more scrutiny than some other artifacts. My view is that the 51xx class is probably one of the best locomotives for a heritage line that you could get but I'd admit that 4115 would take some work! Its interesting that work is in full swing on the 51xx BR Standard replacement, 82045, so anything is possible given effort and funding.

 

+1 ( )

 

And with that post you show a complete lack of knowledge of 4115 and lack of appreciation for what has been achieved in preservation. Prairies are very economical and powerful locos. Cheddleton have been more than happy with 5199 and Bluebell were equally as happy with her as well. As has been said tougher restorations have been attempted and completed. 6430 and 80072 had very little left to them but are now fully restored. 71000 was restored despite missing 2 cylinders. And then we could also count 60163, how many people doubted that?

So 4115 'could' be restored if there was the group to do so. However being part of the Barry 10 is the reason for her non-restoration, not the lack of people to do it. She is owned by the Vale of Glamorgan Council who did not see the Barry 10 as a high priority so gaining access to them has been a struggle. This is where the Cambrian Transport Group, who are negotiating with the VoG, come into it as they have been designated as the port of call to help find places for these locos within preservation. With regards to 4115, they have gained her release for the 47XX Project at Didcot, who want her wheels and extension frames.

 

right, what I mean by "loads". Well, what i mean is, eventually there are gunna be too many locos. What I mean by this is that if you overhaul locos willy nilly then we're gunna end up in a situaion where a railway is running too many engines and the running costs are fare greater than the what the loco is earning the railway, and therefor effect the railways profit. There is also the case of hiring engines, if you overhauling engine, whos gunna neceserally want to hire it if they already have a sufficient number of locos to do the job?? In this situation a loco would not earn enough money to either pay off loans or to pay for another overhall :/.
with locos like 4115, 4110 and so on there is the case of course that these locos have been stripped for spares to help with the overhaul of other engines, making the cost of the overhaul economically unviable. So there is a lack of spare, well, you knw gunna say..... why don't we make new componants, well in that case you are going to spend so much money that you might as well built a new engine..... welcome to the world of the standard 3 :israel:!!!

Soryy to poo on anybodys dreamhwell:

 

Ah yes, I was right, its a wind up!

 

Your stark raving mad pal !

 

Too many locos?!?! There is at present a shortage of reliable locos, even the bigger lines like the Valley have struggled recently hence they hired the Hall last summer and presently have 6695. This will continue as there is only limited engines that have survived and not all of them will be in ticket at any one time.

As to hiring of engines, most lines do not own enough of their own engines to maintain their required services and don't have the resources to do it all themselves though there are some exceptions eg Paignton. Therefore they rely on volunteer groups to provide locomotives. Most of the time the locos come from groups that are based on the line eg 80072 at Llangollen. This provides the volunteers with their own project to keep them occupied but also gives the line a working engine.

As for replacing components, they are working machines so of course parts are going to wear out. But so long as they are well maintained then the cost of repair / overhaul will not be significantly expensive.

I'd love to know where you've got all your ideas from, as to be quite frank you're the one writing poopoo. You have a lot to learn about locomotive operation and maintenance going off your posts, and need to come into reality instead of posting rubbish.