Tornado

Sorry, my quotation should have read "it's not the first all welded steel boiler in use in Britain (but it is on the mainline)". There's been a few on some traction engines, I believe? Correct me if I am wrong, happy to be corrected if wrong!

 

I think that's stunning, personally. Nice one Garry! I think I prefer that to the black wheels, and I say this knowing my favourite livery very well - express passenger blue!

 

Re: Tornado in Blue (Corrected)

Link to corrected image with thanks to those who took the trouble to reply:

http://northernblue109.fotopic.net/p68711768.html

 

Great stuff Garry - must admit that BR blue and GER blue are my favourite liveries

Regards,

Dan

 

Re: Tornado in Blue (Corrected)

Fantastic, I'm so looking forward to seeing her like that! Thanks for taking the trouble Garry

 

Re: Tornado in Blue (Corrected)

Simply stunning - thought the first re-done pic was good, but then your second pic left my breathless.

 

There are large numbers of all welded boilers of varying types in UK, including "BROOKES No1" at Middleton. However, apart from the Merchant Navy pacifics, which I believe had "some" welded features, TORNADO is the first loco in the UK to run on the main line with a fully welded boiler. My understanding is that it's based on a german class 01 boiler, hence the square firehole door opening, disguised by a standard LNER design door mechanism. These boilers are used extensively in Germany, but their main line locos don't get anything like the usage that TORNADO has had over the past couple of years and I suspect that's at the heart of the situation - the boiler is being continuously stressed from cold to hot and back again, whereas in "ordinary" main line use it would be steamed up and kept in steam for several days at a time and rarely allowed to cool down to clap cold. The german preservation scene is such that the big locos only get steamed occasionally and it may be that they use a technique which brings the boiler up to steam very slowly indeed over a longer period than we allow in the UK. these are the sorts of things UK preservationists are likely yo have to learn if we are to go down the orad of using all welded boilers on the main line.

 

The Statfold completed Wren at Kew Bridge has a welded inner firebox. Regretfully, although I drive her, I am not certain about the rest of the boiler but I believe it is rivetted. Whatever the construction it is a superb steam generator and so far trouble free.

P.H.

 

The techniques for making it might be based on that known about the German boilers, but the design itself much updated Peppercorn 118 - hence the use of the moniker "Diagram 118a". One of the things I loved about the building of the boiler was the new word the Germans latched onto - "banjodom" (banjo dome). The firebox hole used a standard German plate, yes, but the actual design of the boiler itself was Peppercorn for the most part, updated for the modern day. It certainly is not a German 01 boiler when you compare to the designs!

I do take your points here, and agree entirely.

 

The boiler for Tornado is a unique design based on german knowledge and technology. Obviously, its exterior dimensions are the same as the Peppercorn P118, but that is where the similarity ends.
I am, of course, refering to the boiler shell and firebox.

 

Actually a vast degree of the interior owes much to the original diagram 118 design too, at least in terms of setup and general layout. The streamlining of passages was necessary to various degrees. 118a seems to be the best way of describing the boiler, in my opinion, given the great similarities throughout, and the definitive changes therein.

Incidentally if anyone could explain the differences between a machined foundation ring and a rolled one, specifically, and why the Germans/most of the continent, seem to use the former and not the latter, I'd be most appreciative. I simply can't find any information other than descriptions of the style of the foundation ring used on certain german classes of steam engines (also found some references to French steam engines using a similar approach).

 

presumably a rolled on is made out of a single piece heated and bent to shape, 60163's appears to be 4 pieces of straight and 4 angled (machined )pieces welded together to form the whole.
Rolled bends would tend to expand /contract more evenly than a machined corner which will expand in a lightly more linear fashion depending on the direction the material it was cut from was origimnally rolled out...

 

Thank you for that insight. Yes, that would explain to some extent the cracking in the forward corners reported, perhaps?

 

Ok, all this talk about rolled and machined foundation rings is confusing my simple mind! Traditional foundation rings, as found on most British boilers were forged and machined, or perhaps flame cut and machined. AFAIK the Bulleid light pacifics had forged 'U' shaped pieces, machined to final shape and welded to forged and machined corners of similar profile. Not sure how you roll a foundation ring, as such. Perhaps you could explain? I certainly don't know how Tornado's have been made.

 

It would?

 

vorsprung durch nackered as they say in Germany

 

Reasons for Tornado's firebox needing to go back to builder:-
1. Bad design?
2. Bad construction?
3. Bad operation?
4. Bad maintenance?
5. Bad luck?

You decide! (Well, some of you already have)

 

As it seems some of my comments regarding broken stays and the potential of firebox collapses or boiler explosions have caused some to be agitated enough for them to take the matter up with the moderaters, some further information from the past might be useful.

To recap, if one stay breaks, its load is then shared (and added to) the load on the ones surrounding it. If these also fail, the ever increasing load is in turn imposed upon those surrounding them. The effect is like that of a nuclear chain reaction = collapse/explosion.

USA S160 2-8-0s, 3 of which suffered boiler explosions here during WW2. Attributed at the time due to mishandling of the water gauges, following a further 20 such incidents post-war in Italy an investigation revealed a design fault with the stays. Due to a combination of a coarse thread and scale build up they could overheat, go 'plastic' and give out = firebox collapse. For more read "Locomotives at War" by P. M. Kalla-Bishop ISBN 0 85153 373 6. Publishing date not stated, but published by Bradford Barton.

Two further examples of non low water explosions. SR 'C' class 0-6-0 No. 1572 at Hither Green on October 15th, 1947, and E4 class 0-6-2T SR No (3)2557 at Southampton on April 6th, 1949. Due to undetected badly corroded firebox stays both locos suffered boiler explosions. For further information on these (and others) see "Locomotive Boiler Explosions" by C. H. Hewison ISBN 0-7153-8305-1. Published by David & Charles 1983.

Whether the stays are badly corroded or over-stressed, the effect is the same if they fail.

 

Out of interest, the foundation ring of the DB West German Class 10 4-6-2s of 1956 with all welded boilers, used a rolled up 'U' section for the sides and ends,with cast steel curved corners, all welded together.