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Tornado

Discussion in 'Steam Traction' started by Leander's Shovel, Oct 20, 2007.

Page 126 of 478
  1. Spamcan81

    Spamcan81 Nat Pres stalwart

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    Thermal cycles is not hogwash. Even with correct boiler treatment thermal cycles take their toll on boilers.
     
    Spamcan81, Mar 26, 2011
    #2501
  2. fergusmacg

    fergusmacg Resident of Nat Pres

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    Sorry perhaps I should have said

    Put's all the hogwash about 'thermal cycles' causing "all" the problems into context me thinks. . . .

    The number of cyles will play some part although it is difficult to quantify, however the reported quilting is unlikely to be due to this cause . . . .
     
    fergusmacg, Mar 26, 2011
    #2502
  3. Steve

    Steve Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    As I and others have said, thermal cycles may shorten the life of a boiler but they are not the cause of the locos problems. If they were, every steam loco in use would be suffering the same problems because short cycles have ben the norm since 1968. You need to look elsewhere for the prime problems and IMHO, it is a fundamental of the design.
    The vast majority of those contributing to this thread are not knocking Tornado or the A1 team. They are having a worthwhile discussion.
     
    Steve, Mar 26, 2011
    #2503
    1 person likes this.
  4. Spamcan81

    Spamcan81 Nat Pres stalwart

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    IMHO not every steam loco would be suffering the same problems because not every loco has a steel box for one thing. 21C123, 34059 and 34081 have had firebox problems in preservation, are you suggesting these were fundamental of the design?
     
    Spamcan81, Mar 26, 2011
    #2504
  5. Steve

    Steve Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    Not in the least. Far from it. Did they have similar problems within the first few steamings?
     
    Steve, Mar 26, 2011
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  6. Eightpot

    Eightpot Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    Eightpot, Mar 27, 2011
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  7. Eightpot

    Eightpot Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    Eightpot, Mar 27, 2011
    #2507
  8. fergusmacg

    fergusmacg Resident of Nat Pres

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    Thanks for this link I'd not had a look at this one before - most of what’s on this is mirrored on here although we appear to have a more technical debate on the other side of the pond???

    I also had a look on there on the thread on the premature failure of tubes on 844 which makes interesting reading and in particular the amount of localised corrosion on the tubes due to differing material specifications - see

    http://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=29554&start=30

    Now I know that the above does not relate to Tornado but it did get me thinking - now that the bulging side sheets are likely to be removed, has there been significant corrosion & is a metallurgist looking at them?
     
    fergusmacg, Mar 27, 2011
    #2508
  9. martin butler

    martin butler Part of the furniture

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    Given that 35028 and 34067 were probally the 2 most reliable engines on the main line , i wonder, did the A1 trust take advice on best operating regime for Tornado? Water treatment for any steel fireboxed loco is very important, from what ive seen, the system now used at MHR, KESR and others seems to do the trick, Recently Terrier No3 which has a steel box,i believe? was examined and found to be almost like new, after 5 years use , so prehaps using ro treated water might be one possible way to prevent future boiler issues as corrosion does not happen to the same degree
     
    martin butler, Mar 27, 2011
    #2509
  10. S.A.C. Martin

    S.A.C. Martin Part of the furniture

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    Any other covenators had their Tornado Telegraph yet? Still waiting on mine. :)

    No rush mind, just like reading through it when it arrives.
     
    S.A.C. Martin, Mar 29, 2011
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  11. Sheff

    Sheff Resident of Nat Pres

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    Had mine by email a few days ago.
     
    Sheff, Mar 29, 2011
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  12. S.A.C. Martin

    S.A.C. Martin Part of the furniture

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    Ah! That may explain it. I will have to check which address I have down for the A1 trust. Thanks Sheff!
     
    S.A.C. Martin, Mar 29, 2011
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  13. GWR

    GWR Member

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    GWR, Mar 31, 2011
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  14. williamfj2

    williamfj2 Member

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    williamfj2, Mar 31, 2011
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  15. Eightpot

    Eightpot Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    So just what has been done to the boiler to resolve the stay and foundation ring problems?
     
    Eightpot, Mar 31, 2011
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  16. Steve from GWR

    Steve from GWR Well-Known Member

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    We'll probably never know the exact details, but I would be inclined to surmise a lot. So just what exactly caused you to ask the question that way???
     
    Steve from GWR, Mar 31, 2011
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  17. S.A.C. Martin

    S.A.C. Martin Part of the furniture

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    From the Trust's website.
     
    S.A.C. Martin, Mar 31, 2011
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  18. fergusmacg

    fergusmacg Resident of Nat Pres

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    Yep the record has stuck
     
    fergusmacg, Apr 1, 2011
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  19. S.A.C. Martin

    S.A.C. Martin Part of the furniture

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    Care to elaborate, chap? I was merely repeating the information freely available on the trust's own website, and available to everyone who wants to know for themselves. :) Forgive me for doing the logical thing by pointing it out.
     
    S.A.C. Martin, Apr 1, 2011
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  20. I. Cooper

    I. Cooper Member

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    Indeed it is the logical thing to do, but I rather suspect there are many people who just don't happen to believe the Trust's excuse/reasoning/tale that it's perfectly normal to be renewing thousands of stays, welding in great chunks of new firebox and serious foundation ring repairs after around 300 steaming cycles.

    As has already been mentioned on the thread, there are plenty of other engines whose boilers manage to last many more thermal cycles without needing such major work.

    There is also the post made by Keith6233 on 25th March quoting Mark Allatt as saying that the stays will be tubular rather than drilled bar to reduce the occurance of hot spots and to prevent cracking. That sounds very much like a design change to me. Not a problem in itself, but surely it suggests the problems have been down to a little more than just the amount of use/cycles it's seen?? ...which is/was the Trust's official tale.

    There are none so blind as those who will not see, but ultimately so long as they're happy - what does it really matter?
     
    I. Cooper, Apr 1, 2011
    #2520
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