Clicks and Upsets

Elsewhere on the forum (The Great Britain Saturday thread), people having been getting upset about the noise generated by digital camera's in close proximity to videographers. Some say its natural 'background' noise, others disagree. Some say all digital camera shutter 'sounds' can, and should be turned off (not true in the more expensive DSLR market). Some say, taking 'bracket shots' is not photography (every press professional would disagree with that) and that 20 shots in 20 seconds is silly behaviour. So we have a right old kerffuffel !

Do the video makers have a divine right to silence ? Discuss.

*Hides in a concrete bunker* :smt014

 

lol, glad I`m not still using the F5 then, hope they dont mind me wind problem

 

A Divine right, no.
Though I would expect it from fellow enthusiasts and to be fair 99% of the time I do get it.
The most common thing is when trying to record the train going away, just those extra 10 seconds, everyone starts comparing their shot!

If you are videoing, use a directional mic. Whilst they are not perfect the do eliminate most noise from the side and rear - certainly more so than the usual on-board mic (I swear my on-board picks up more sound from the side than in front ](*,) )

Most stills cameras can adjust the volume of the artificial shutter, just turn it down it's only going to be a couple of inches away from your ear, so why the need to have it so loud (rhetorical)?

 

Just for the fun of it sometimes I indulge in a bit of chemical based photography using my old Carl Zeiss Werra 3 with its multi-leaf Prestor shutter, up to 1/750th second speed, 2.8 Tessar lens ( interchangeable ), and lightweight. Don't need to turn down the artificial shutter volume, when it fires its quieter than a pigeons f**t. :-$

 

I don't think shutter sound is too bad when watching a video, it can not be helped. I would be slightly more on the video side if it is a compact that makes a jingle sound when it starts up etc, but a normal shutter fire sound is part of the scene in my opinion.


There is somebody around here though who I will not name, but takes a lot of videos and nobody seems them. Who will happily blat off photos like there is no tomorrow when other people are videoing, but when he is videoing its a crime to even breathe [-X

 

I wouldn't expect quiet,it is something called respect,something that a few people lack at lineside,some photographers completely ignore video cameras and just talk at full volume!

Also i don't think there is no skill in bracket shots,i just think there is less,obviously they still have to set the shot up but holding the button and just letting it roll isn't very hard,wheras with a straight digi you can take one or two in 6 seconds if your lucky,how can there be no difference in skill,for example,i have to pick the exactly right time to press it,wheras with a DSLR i could hold it and take 10 or 20 and then pick a favorite. At the end of the day Pro's will defend themselves,its inevitable,but you can't seriously say its more skilled than just taking one or using a film that takes just the one. It's not that i have a lack of respect,hell i am nowhere near the level of photographer that some forum members are because they know the perfect composition but some people do just stand and pray to get a good shot. That is why with some of my shots i have things that i look back on and think "that looks a bugger,it needed to be about 5 feet back" but i can do nothing about it,whereas with a "Sport" shot i could just go back five frames....

At the end of the day this arguement will go forever,there will be no winner!

Cheers,
Mark

 

Does it matter?, really matter? surely the joy of experiancing main line steam is more important than the perfection or otherwise of a video or photo that probably will be viewed once and never looked at again. i think most of the "gallery" on these ocassions are actually photographic enthusiast more than they are railfans.

 

Yes,that's why prefer traveling to fotting.

 

Just out of curiosity more than anything else. But has everyone forgotten that most SLR's used to make a click sound when the shutters were pressed. Sound from the shutter being released is not a new thing! Be serious. The sound that the shutter makes has been around far longer than videots have been videoing bearing in mind that small compact video cameras have only been on the scene in the quantity they are today, for relatively few years. I think everyone just needs to learn to be respectful of each other. If you are videoing and don't want the sound of photographers, then go somewhere where there aren't any. Not exactly rocket science. Or alternatively get a directional mic. Personally I don't mind people who want to video and generally I am quite tolerant and try to remain quiet when the train approaches and retreats into the distance, but some videots can be really annoying. Like they will stand on a beach right by the tide and wont let u stand in front of them, or to the left or right of them in case you are in the scene and you can't stand behind them because they are panning round for the going away shot as well. You know who you are. Some not all Videots are very selfish and I can entirely appreciate where the photors are coming from. But as tolerant as I am I will not be told that I can stand nowhere and enjoy my hobby. To most people my response will probably be Can't, I don't want to hear can't, bollox to can't. So just bear in mind if you are reasonable I'm sure that I, and other photographers, will be more than accommodating.

 

I used to do video before taking up photting and people talking over the soundtrack and walking through my shot before i'd finished fading out was far more of a bugbear that shutter noise, frankly i'd find you'd have to be listening so hard as to not be paying much attention to the main subject to notice it, frankly if your going to a popular spot or station then other photters are inevitable, shutter noise i don't mind, it's the people iignorant of what you are doing that are the pain.

As a result of my earlier videoing, i do tend to keep quiet and not walk infront of them until not absoulutely certain they have finished shooting.

I also find machine gunning the target when photting is most definetly not the practice to use on fast moving trains as you rarely get a perfect shot with that technique, nearest you'll get is one 5 foot short of the perfect position and the next pic half the bufferbeam is out the frame, so no perfect phots despite taking 20 ](*,)

I find two shots to be the optimum, one is your perfect shot, taken with perfect framing, waiting for the engine to be dead in the perfect position before firing the shutter, the other is a kind of back up shot, taken before or after the main shot (depending on the location) should you somehow cock up the main shot, though enough time should be left between the two shots so as not to compromise the main shot, assuming the main shot is the better of the two, the backup gets binned.

 

I agree David. Personally, I don't do video (of trains), but I'm always aware of those taking Vid. I would NEVER walk across their shot, but I can't turn off the mechanical mirror in my DSLR. The thing that really ANNOYS me is where a group of well behaved and considerate photters position themselves early on a platform so they can all get a decent shot, then some git runs up at the very last minute and stands in front of everyone!

I think a lot of photters 'bracket' their shots because they want the eccentric rod in that 'perfect' position. not something that bothers me. I've met some really nice people hanging around waiting to take photo's and that is one of the positive social aspects of our hobby.

 

Gotta agree john. Nothing worse than some ignorant git walking in front after about an hour of waiting. Luckily at liskeard last week someone Had a friendly word with a guy stood in front of us. He agreed to stand back so we could get the semiphore in shot. As it says in your sig,its not what you say its how you say it!
Cheers,
Mark

 

As a staunch video man, shutters don't really annoy me in close proximity. Talking does. That said, if you are there first I think anyone that stands next to you should try their best to preserve the scene (visual and audible) as it was before they arrived. Luckily, with the advent of digital editing software, you can remove many shutter sounds quite easily. No need for this talk of vidiots - we should all respect each other at the lineside, whatever we are trying to do.

 

I agree totally - can't see how anyone could argue with that point (but they probably will) !

 

I'm currently using a directional microphone so it doesn't really pick up the shutter noise, yesterday when at the Moors and waiting for 6619 to come up the Esk Valley, another 3 photographers came and had very loud shutters, nothing can be done about this in my opinion, everyone has a right to be there, therefore i just moved the microphone further away from them, ended up been about 2 metres away from the camera, if fellow video people are using a microphone maybe they should consider moving the microphone further away from the cameras with loud shutters, i ended up having mine on Saturday at Embsay about 6 Metres away from the camera just because it was a more suitable place to place the microphone due to the ground.

Everyone has a right to take a photograph or video in my opinion, however common decency should be taken into consideration by people especially if you know the camera is going to make a loud shutter noise and there is plenty of room to get the same shot, the same for the video person why not just move, i do. If it's a scene like 60163's first trips when you couldn't move then there's nothing your going to be able to do.

Talking for me is a main problem, however many people are aware what your doing and are considerate in that respect, if not then i tell them what my intentions are and ask them very politely to be quiet for a moment, if your not rude about the matter then neither are they.

Respect works on a two way basis!

 

A fairly pedantic point, but with most cameras, shutter noise is minimal and the noise you usually hear is 'mirror slap'. All SLRs have a mirror to enable 'through the lens' viewing. This moves out of the way before the shutter is opened and then returns after, usually with a 'clunk'. More advanced cameras enable mirror lock up, but this isn't terribly useful for railway photography as you can't see through the viewfinder when the mirror is locked up. Compact and some other cameras enable you to set an electronic noise when the shutter fires, primarily because these cameras don't have mirrors, so it's really difficult to hear when the shutter fires (if you need that reassuring 'clunk').

My personal view is that videographers would be best investing in directional microphones and other such systems to overcome local noise, as railway photography is often undertaken in 'galleries' of people and so there will always be some background noise. Most linesiders are considerate of one another, but we all get it wrong from time-to-time and upset someone else. In my experience, it is rarely intentional. Otherwise, you just need to avoid the crowds, which usually isn't too difficult with a bit of thought.

As for 'machine gun shooting' - why not? I have one camera that I only get one shot on before having to manually wind, and another that has a fast winder. If I judge the speed of the train to be sufficiently slow that I can get multiple shots, then why not increase my chances of getting a good one? For sure, it would be magic if I could get a single perfect shot every time, but trying to get the exhaust optimum, rods down, etc. is pretty tricky, no matter how experienced you are. I've just spent the weekend chasing the Great Britain around Scotland and spent time with several top notch photters, many of whom shoot 'machine gun' style. So, why not take advantage of the multiple shot capability of many cameras to increase the chances of success? It's not compulsory to make things difficult for yourself, just for the sake of it.

 

One thing that does seem to annoy some people with video cameras is the beeping sound that comes from DSLR cameras with auto focus. You just keep hearing beeping sounds before they push the shutter button. But this can be turned off.

 

For me - This is so Pedantic.... Obviously some people get upset by such a little sound?? Personally i get more annoyed at taking (what I think is a good shot) only that second being taken up with someone walking past in front!!

 

Had the most annoyingvideo ever at Salisbury yesterday,some pikey decided to make a phone call whilst it departed!!! ](*,) ](*,) Right next to me and someone else doing a vid!