Flying Scotsman

From Townend's book re the elephant ears

' The first (to be fitted) , 60049 was fitted in October 1960 and loaned to Kings Cross …….as a report had been requested. There was no difficulty at that time in dispensing with the class 40 diesel diagrammed to work the 1000 from KX to Newcastle and back with the 5.05pm due in KX about 1010 pm, a round working of 536 miles in just over 12 hours which would never have been contemplated in earlier years. The outcome was that in over 3000 miles of running the Inspectors reported that the total time the driver's vision had been obscured was 25 secs...…… (they) may have marred the clean lines aesthetically (but) it was an essential fitting with the double Kylchap exhaust system...… it was recommended as a standard fitting for all the double chimney locomotives.'

He goes on to say 55 of the 78 were actually fitted, many of them at depots rather than in works. My sums say 11 were single blastpipe and four were with the LMS at Carlisle Canal.

Just on a personal note I can remember cabbing 60077 one day at KX and asking the driver if they made any difference and he said they made a lot of difference.

'

 

Aaaaaahhh.... that old load of pony. As in "A 'Saint' did 135mph, it's TRUE!" (best said in the voice of Morwenna Banks's 'Little Girl' character from Absolutely.)

Equally, in preservation as 4472 prior to the NRM purchase....

 

Those chestnuts can been chewed from both ends!

 

I'm not suggesting they were not fitted for a reason. However the same equipment was fitted to some V2s and to the A2/2s and BR Eastern Region did not modify these the same way. The A3s also, as you pointed out, were fitted with the double chimneys for nearly two years without deflectors.

I am sure they did (do) improve visibility. But it has always been odd to see the inconsistency in decision making across the big locos of the LNER. That is the point I am making.

There's potentially an argument that, had they wanted to eradicate the drifting the smoke issue sooner, Bugatti type front ends should have been retrofitted to them all. We have the data, we know the A4 type front end is the best for smoke deflection. By the time of Thompson and Peppercorn, the Bugatti front end was being applied to drawings and nothing else.

Only the A4s (plus 60700) remained of the streamlined era on the LNER by 1951, all others rebuilt (P2s) or made conventional (B17/5).

EDIT: added W1 to above list due to inaccuracy.

 

Can't argue with that - and won't. My point wasn't about effectiveness, more consistency. Thank you for posting that - interesting reading.

 

Yes good book Top Shed. Carlisle Canal shed was nothing to do with the LMS ,it was the NB/LNER shed for the Waverley route to Edinburgh .60095 Flamingo was sheded there for the whole of its life of 33 years They did work LMS trains from St Pancras ,one return overnight and one return day time ,which kept the Canal A3s busy between Carlisle and Edinburgh.

 

60700.

 

Sorted. Just listened to No.7 charging down Stoke at 112. Goosepimple time.

 

I have read that a proposal was made to fit the V2s with Witte type deflectors but authorisation not given by higher authority. The Witte deflectors on the A3s were a relatively cheap and quick fix. I doubt the same could be said about the A4 style front end.

 

How different in external appearance were the A1/A10 and A3 boilers?

 

That quote was from East Coast Pacifics at Work. I agree they are both good books. My impression is that in 1960 the writ of the Eastern Region ran as far as being able to decide that the blinkers would be fitted from 34A to 64B but not to 12C which at that time was under the control of the LMR. Should have written LMR not LMS!

 

I'll edit accordingly. Thank you.

And I don't disagree with you there. As always, there's a compromise at work. Strange that the A4 front end was seen as necessary for the P2s, despite working at nominally lower overall speeds, than the B17s which were frankly just a gimmick for advertising. As I say, lack of consistency.

Round top dome compared to the current (streamlined - not banjo - shaped one), the washout plugs and position of safety valves is different too, LHD to RHD. I am sure there are other differences.

In great scheme of things, not that much different, more slight evolutions than revolution (think Patriot to rebuilt Patriot for that).

 

Good point.

 

A bit strange that the A3`s wasn`t equipped with the same sort of smoke deflectors as the (Peppercorn)A1 and A2`s.

 

Ah, but one was...

 

And looked damn handsome!

 

This "inconsistency" may be due to the notices issued by the CME and the actual practice at the depots. IIRC Townsend requested numerous changes to procedures in the light of operating experience and I have already drawn (earlier) attention to Haymarket changing the maintenance procedures for the conjugated valve gear. If such be the case I venture to suggest that - as long as the MPC remained above certain levels - the management would adopt the "Nelsonian Eye" and allow matters to continue with depot staff adapting procedures in the light of experience.

This arose even in diesel days when Michael Oakley was able to show that 50009 had been uprated to / operating at 3250 hp by Plymouth Laira depot without the knowledge of the CMEE of the day - and subsequent checks by him identified that Inverness had been uprating some of its Class 26 fleet 6LDA28A engines at 1250 hp.

 

Note however that 60097 Humorist had been the subject of draughting modifications since the earliest days hence confirming that "drifting steam" was a known problem with the Gresley Pacifics.

 

But those draughting experiments were specifically for the double chimney fitted, not the single chimney. Her development effectively ended when under Peppercorn she was fitted with the later type of smoke deflectors.

Neither Thompson nor Peppercorn seemed interested in developing the A3s further than the one double chimney example (Humorist) - and the A3s continued, single chimney fitted, until the late 1950s.

Wasn't much of a "known" problem to be frank, only five Gresley Pacifics had the double chimney arrangement by 1948: whereas there were 26 Thompson Pacifics fitted, plus 54 Peppercorn Pacifics so fitted. Of which, the majority had full length smoke deflectors.

It's fascinating stuff but a bit of a headache to get one's head round on a Tuesday afternoon...

 

I still think the Witte deflectors look better?