Trespassers

I am interested to see that my tentative proposals have engendered much valued comment which seems to acknowledge that the framework is acceptable but the body may need some adjustment to meet local conditions.

In fairness I have presumed that lineside access will be from a station or crossing thus be from the railway. The point about access from farmland is well taken and I would presume that this will be highlighted by the railway when the "local conditions" are handed out - especially lands to avoid or show care during such as lambing seasons as occurs on the Llangollen Railway.

The availability of conditions on the internet might also be of use as it allows photographers to familiarise themselves with the line before visiting and be stamped on production when visiting the line to show that the appropriate fee has been paid.

The staffing of this scheme should ease the pressure on most lines since the staff - it appears - are on the lineside checking for trespassers and under my proposals the railway should be netting the agreed fee thereby making an overall benefit.

A final point is that I had suggested a nominal fee but I am happy to see the railway charge a fee that it thinks appropriate - whether it be the price of a Day Rover or a fixed fee is irrelevant - as it does not impair the control elements that I was seeking to emphasize.

I hope this idea can develop wings because - as I said at the beginning - self regulation from within is definitely better than imposed regulation from without.

 

I take it by these remarks you don't wish to see lineside passes make a comeback at MHR then or even be willing to consider them? Surely by adopting ideas from other railways (or the idea of Fred's) it may actually benefit the MHR?

No? Oh well then, it's only MHR that will lose the revenue & extremely significant profit. Let's hope volunteers from other railways don't have such short-sighted views when it comes to increasing revenue, money that quite obviously will go towards the whole railway operation.

 

Seeing as this is been brought up about the recent diesel gala where you ran several freight turns, how do these help the passengers ?

 

To allow the passengers to see demonstration freight, engineers and breakdown trains. (Oh and unfitted freight is a whole lotta fun! :smt052 )

 

It would seem that the withdrawal of permits hasn't stopped the very idiots who caused the problem in the first place so it's a policy that isn't deterring the irresponsible but aggravating those who would gladly pay money and act responsibly . As for the freight trains at the gala. Who were these run for? Photographers surely, otherwise why run them at all?

 

Slight exaggeration perhaps? Look, the MHR don't issue lineside passes at the mo. That's a management decision, and that's the way it is. If people really want to take photos lineside on the MHR there is a way to do this as outlined in the MHR's marketing manager's earlier post (which noone has yet commented on, too keen to whinge I guess)
Why don't you lot actually join the MHR or other railways, stop moaning about everything and anything, and actually do something towards getting things how you want them? Or is that too much like hard work? Fred's the only one who's come up with something constructive - has no-one else got a brain on here?

 

I think the point is several people have tried to give constructive & helpful ideas for you to make money from these people/easily identify the illegal ones, yet these people are not met with ''Thanks but no thanks'' a aggressive reaction from your volunteers, hardly a good image is it ?

 

Beaker's last posting pretty much summed things up, after all, with comments like this ....

... is it any wonder the MHR (and now its volunteers?) are coming under fire?

Not exactly helpful or constructive, are they?

 

I don't think that people have tried to be constructive apart from Fred Kerr. I've not been aggressive, simply tried to point out that there are other issues besides 'a few more bob in the coffers', but of course as always people have their own agendas. Given some of the attitudes displayed by some photographers both physically on the railway and in the posts on this forum, I'm happy that the management of the MHR is looking at the bigger picture and has the best interests of it's volunteers, particulary footplate crews, at heart.

As a bit of light relief, if lineside passes were to be reinstated, photographers would have to run the gauntlet of the famous farmer with a shotgun to gain access to some of the more photogenic spots. Good luck with that.

 

Cherrypicking while you wait?

 

In a way it was light relief to see a posting that had more negativity than the UK economy!

 

Thus making you're previous void!

 

In my opinion the most constructive posts here (apart from Fred Kerr's) have been Chessie! At lease somebody has had the balls to mention that complaining on a internet forum will not owrk, but becoming a member, or even speaking to Colin, will work! If you want something changed YOU change it.

As a previous poster mentioned - It is easy to criticise.

 

I totally agree with chessie here. Really I think the way to show the forum members on here who are having a go at the MHR policy and what it's volunteers have said would be to invite them all along to take pictures of one of their fellow photers when they're on the track. Well, I say take pictures on them, but it would be their arms and legs and maybe some of their vital organs. The rest will be on the loco that knocked them over becaus eof them messing around, tresspassing on the railway. And then maybe these people who are complaining should also be the ones to tell the photers children that they've lost their father. And also maybe they could have a go at being the traincrew on the train that hit the photer. How do you think the driver would feel having just mowed someone down? And having the mess to clear off the front of your loco.

Think about why the MHR has chosen to put in place these rules. And then think about the possible consequences of disobeying those rules. And then please don't have a go at the MHR for trying to protect people's lives!

 

Quite.

 

Hello,

Frankly said, I recognize neither the location nor the event but rest assured that crossing the tracks in a no-no in Germany. Basically any part of railway land outside public areas, i.e. platforms and level crossings, are no-go areas. It is only that the Bundespolizei (federal police, they are responsible in this case) may take a sensible and de-escalating approach at steam events. As a rule of thump, as long as you are outside any signposts or overhead line poles you will be fine.

As a foreigner to the UK I find lineside passes slightly irritating. Surely there must be enough level crossings, bridges, parallel footpaths or similar to get decent photographs, so to me walking along the track or crossing it at any location would not appear to be really necessary at all.

As a bit of an aside, I know of two railway museum open days here in Germany where hi-vis vests for visitors were explicitly banned. The official reason was to avoid confusion for other visitors about who was a museum official and who not but it was also a means to ensure that nobody went astray. There are far too many photographers who believe that a hi-vis vest takes them anywhere!

Kind regards

Christoph

 

It seems that some contributors believe that as long as a railway is making some money off of lineside photographers that they should be content. However no amount of money will compensate for the damage that will be caused to a line if somebody they have permitted to be on the lineside gets themselves collected up on a buffer-beam, and that's leaving aside entirely the matter of trauma to their staff.

If you take somebodys money and in return permit them to access a dangerous location they would otherwise be excluded from, then you have a much greater duty of care to them than if they choose to trespass, and much greater liability if the worst happens.

Our trackworkers have to undergo a considerable amount of training and assesment before they are permitted unescorted access to the lineside. And not all will make the grade, even with training and mentoring. Those who do acquit themselves satisfactorily will continue to learn and gain experience as part of the gang and in time will progress to being able to work alone. That process can take several weeks to several years, depending on the amount of time the volunteer can put in and their previous experience. Whilst on the job they'll also learn about emergency procedures, access points, restricted locations, safety critical communications and the like.

The attitude of some on here seems to be that it is then acceptable to let somebody rock up at the nearest station with a few notes in their mitts, read a pamphlet, maybe fill out a multiple choice questionaire and then wander off to work on the lineside. And make no mistake about it, lineside photography *is* very definitely work, with the added danger that the photographer does not stop work during the passage of nearby trains, but if anything is concentrating more on their task. It's not acceptable in my opinion and it can only be a matter of time before somebodys luck runs out. Hopefully it won't be one of my colleagues who has to put themselves in danger to try and prevent an accident.

At the end of the day, if I had a man out, standing in close proximity to a running line and giving the majority of his attention to the image in a viewfinder, then not only would I expect him to be competent and experienced, but I would also expect him to have a touch lookout with him at all times whilst he was working. A cheap visi and a scrap of cardboard are no substitute.

Yes, if we were to ban lineside photpgraphy then we'll lose a few shekels, and some idiots would still trespass, but at least if - when - the worst happened we would not be guilty of encouraging them, licensing them even, to be where they were. As I said before, I have little doubt that before too much longer insurance companies will begin to force lines to start withdrawing their lineside photography schemes, as they have things such as shed access and brakevan rides.

Flip

 

Varies from line to line, somewhere like the SVR is pretty well blessed for public locations, incomparison i defy anyone to name a decent GCR location on the double track section other than Woodthorpe and Kinchley Lane, Chunet Valley is the same, not a great deal away from Consall, went lineside for their January gala which frankly took a line with around two decent photting locations into one with double figures.

 

So.........how many have been killed or injured on railways with a 25mph limit to date?

 

Even though it's irrelevant to my argument, more than a few in recent years, and the majority of accidents happen at much lower speeds than that. Do you think that 25mph isn't lethal or something ?

Flip