70013

A good reason why I don't care how many locos the NRM gift away. By their own admission, the pathetic rebranding, they are not even the National Railway Museum now. Ollie must have earned a fair bit in steaming fees so what's happened to that cash?

 

Sorry John but the idea that steaming fees cover more than the operating costs is pure fantasy. Sure it earned a fair bit over the years but keeping it in traffic over this period has cost as much if not more. If the current custodians want to crack on with another overhaul, have they submitted a fully costed and funded plan of their aspirations and do they intend to operate it on the main line or keep it for GC use only. It is going to cost a lot of money to fund another overhaul and no one has said where this is coming from or where the capacity exists to carry out such an overhaul.

Peter

 

Blue and grey stock and with a Mk.2 thrown in for good measure. Imagine the howls of protest if this combo had appeared in the preservation era.

 

Interesting that there is a similar vibe in the diesel world, in particular with the group who've worked on 55002 being unable to do any work for the past year.

 

If there were any surplus, would it have been ring-fenced for 70013 to be overhauled? And, in the context of the NRM having a number of locos to consider, would it even have been appropriate?

 

Leading 3 coaches are Mk2, then a Mk1, then some more mk2's.... the bottom tumblehome and curvature are the identifying features.

 

Having had dealings with the Science Museum myself this comes as no surprise to me.

 

With the restructuring of the main line steam tour market into integrated owner operator TOCs, is this the sharp end of that? How many main line days a year does a loco have to achieve to justify a main line ticket? How likely is it that 6233, number 9, 70013 could expect to achieve that over the next decade given the in house locos which are available?

60103, 60163 and 35028 are all special cases of various kinds. 6201 has I understand it achieved overhaul by being contracted to WCR for ? two years.

I can see it is very frustrating to be in the position of not knowing what happens to 70013 now and not being told anything, but I could believe that a pause for thought might be in order.

 

My sympathy is of course with anyone who has put the money and work into this (or any) locomotive that has seen it fit to run for the last 10 years and will in all likely see it good for much longer and now sees that effort 'disrespected'.
Putting the other hat on the current set of people running the museum may not appreciate this and more than likely attach no urgency to the matter - and are perhaps unlikely to unless someone sends them a 'parking fine'-
(which would certainly prompt a reaction, unfortunately that reaction might be to send it 'back to Bressingham' sharpish)

Getting the right person ( or their boss) down to the GCR and discussing the matter over complimentary lunch on the dining train might be a good first step...?

 

You are viewing this from the presumption that the Museum's primary role is to operate their collection in the short term - whereas they may well see their primary role to be to conserve their collection for the long term. Particularly with another of the same class in existence and with a likely long-term operational future, it's hard to see what the pressing requirement is from the NRM to see 70013 immediately operational.

(And - I fully accept that museums have complex roles and constraints that can sometimes be mutually contradictory, that include both conservation and public access; and include a balance between their own capacity to store and display items, and maintaining relations with other bodies that might be willing to store and display them. So this isn't simple, and isn't a one-size fits all approach, but equally don't just assume that because an item has previously been operational, that immediately turning it round for another stint is inevitably the best idea when viewed through the custodianship lens of being a museum).

Tom

 

I had many happy days as a volunteer at the GCR watching 70013 run in the late 00's. Watching her on the TPO thundering through was a highlight. Strangely enough 30777 on the very same side sticks in the mind too. Both locos a real influence on my formative years as a heritage railway volunteer.

The engine that I miss the most of the NRM's GCR trio is 63601, the O4 (now in ROD guise I think?) - beautiful engine that sounded terrific and really motored on the windcutter set. Happy days indeed.

All three of these engines have been looked after and run at the GCR. All three are iconic locomotives. There is a reasonable expectation that one or more should probably return to steam. However, as is ever the case, things change. Whatever lies in store for them, can we at least acknowledge that we have had in our lifetimes an extraordinary amount of time with this trio of steam locomotives, and, some pretty damn memorable trips.

For that we must pay tribute to all involved in their running, maintenance and repair. We owe them a debt.

I hope that 70013 runs again. I suspect it may be a little while longer before anything is planned. Up to us all to make the business case for our locomotives and improving their lot to keep them running.

 

The SMG's policies have been discussed not so long ago on NP and I gave links to the relevant documents then but those links are no longer valid and many policies have been updated. The new links are below. The documents are written in language typical of the modern public sector but are clearer than many. There is little comfort for railway enthusiasts eager to see mainline running of historic locomotives as in the past. Do not forget that few if any of the Railway Museum staff now have experience of railway operations. Their career path is in Museum Studies and they will move between museums and could be appointed to senior curator positions with little specialist knowledge. Judith McNicol is the recently appointed Director of the NRM and has at least worked there but it remains to be seen what direction she will take the museum. The only certainty is that any developments will be focussed on footfall and revenue.

https://group.sciencemuseum.org.uk/policies-and-reports/

https://group.sciencemuseum.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/conservation-policy-updated-0918.pdf
(Note particularly p.3, 5.9 !!)

 

In this context, p.2, 5.7 may be more significant:

 

Perhaps I'm wrong but I was under the impression that the agreement was that the GC would run and maintain the loco on its own metals in lieu of steaming fees. It was the steaming fees for its Mainline work I was thinking of. I know they wouldn't come anywhere near covering the cost of an overhaul but that money must be accounted for somewhere.

 

Good news, after appearing in that ROD guise for Remembrance weekend the O4 went back into the shed at Loughborough for overhaul. So all being well will be back steaming in a few years.

 

Are we looking at Cromwell's future the wrong way round? Those in charge at the NRM probably don't much care whether the loco is overhauled again for another period of operation or kept for static display. Therefore I would not expect an initiative from that side. If the 5305 loco group believe they can raise the resources to carry out an overhaul, maybe they should approach the NRM with a proposal.

 

Out of sight, out of mind, might be one way to describe it, the staff at York don't see it every day, so its not a priority,like much of the on loan museum exhibits I suspect that apart from what livery, how far can we go with replacing worn out parts, in the early days of a restoration, its very much hands off. personally, I can wonder how big would the out cry be if the NRM decided to not renew loan agreements but to gift the engines already under the care of preserved railways to charitable trusts to ensure the future of these engines as there is no space either at York or Shildon to accept and NRM loco being returned .

 

Steam Railway issue 488 hit the doormat yesterday morning. There's an 11-page photo "story" covering Ollie's preservation career. Apart from rather too much self-congratulation for the magazine's campaign to get her returned to steam, there are several short interviews with people associated with restoring and running the loco, including @Anthony Coulls of this parish. He is quoted on p51 as saying "The NRM is committed to operating the locomotive on the main line and we hope to make a further announcement on this in the near future." My interpretation of that? Another overhaul and main-line certificate is a matter of "when" not "if" but don't hold your breath.

 

Three from 70013's penultimate day in service.

70013 Kinchley Lane GCR by KING COBRA 92, on Flickr

70013 Woodthorpe GCR by KING COBRA 92, on Flickr

70013 Woodthorpe GCR by KING COBRA 92, on Flickr

 

I think another point to bear in mind is that when the Goverment made many museums free admission, one of the knock on effects is that such museums now have less control over their finances. Although I have no real knowledge of how the funding works, they presumably have a very limited 'pot' of money and it must be difficult to justify additional spending above the day to day running costs of the museum itself. At least in the old days they presumably could spend whatever they liked from the income they received from admissions.