CME 2023

Our little beastie is the 130 brake version. It's an automatic but still returned 47 mpg over the day, including the usual high speed dash down the M50. Average Speed was 61 'cos of the number of 50 mph and 60 mph areas on the M5 and M6. Very nice little motor. Bought the auto as Mrs S uses her Electric Corsa most of the time and if she needs more range the 1.2t has the same controls. Seriously quick in manual and auto if you use the 'kickdown'.

 

I'd have expected nothing other than a whimsical response from you David. It's a pity others don't have the same aptitude. For fun later I might PM you the report I put together about Saturday. Certain regular contributors to this forum would be putting the gallows together as they read it.

 

If I had got up at 4 am and back home after midnight to find DL involved I would have been absolutely livid. No wonder I hardly do any main line steam now. As has been pointed out the CME has been a bastion of pure steam. That is my view and I am proud of it.

 

Your take on the Appleby--Ais Gill section would be interesting. Was the Scot taking 450-500 tons up there unassisted?

 

Looking at every video up to Aisgill summit I’ve seen it was an insanely fast climb with no roar from SG that tells me all I need to know about an unassisted run sadly

 

Perhaps RTT was all over the place as it shows 47 mins Appleby to Garsdale with the intermediate time at KS pretty consistent with that!!

 

Wish it had. The diesel worked virtually all the way from Ormside to the summit approach where the 'steam for show' always sees the diesel back off a bit. We crossed Ais Gill Viaduct at 46 and the climbing summit mp260 at 41.5. 47802 had worked most of the way from Carlisle to Appleby. By the way, we were only one and a half coaches from it so we know. Do you know any Class 7 that could have 'done' the Blue Riband Section, Ormside mp275 to mp260 with 550 tons on the drawbar in 19m 7.4s? I don't then my experience is limited to a couple of hundred southbound S&Cs since 1984. I can count the number of runs under 20 minutes on my fingers there have been so few. Best time for a Class 7 is nearer 22 minutes I think. How could I have forgotten the spectacular 8th August 2020 CME with 46115 with 12 up when we did the Blue Riband in 19m 29s. Appleby to Garsdale only took 28m 27s. On some of our runs with 46115 with 11/12 we've barely got to Ais Gill Summit in that time.

 

I might relent and post a doctored report later just to show you, WCR Fan Club and all, and the sad folk who posted the diesel seemed to be doing nothing, just how farcical the running was. By the way, did any of you guys out on the fells record or notice the sections of rail that were so bad WCR had to add an assisting diesel?Apparently the decision was taken on the day. Didn't know they were out seriously early examining the 176m 28c of rails over which we should have been steam hauled. Just yes or no answers please; no long sympathetic overtures. I know we aren't the TOC taking the risk of running unassisted steam and coming to a stand somewhere in treacherous conditions, but we really didn't see any from the train. Di was on the opposite side of the carriage looking forward, and as I timer I spent all day looking forward to pick out the posts so saw a lot of the route. Only bits I didn't see at all were from Gisburn as the light had gone. However we have David's view of Wilpshire and I trust him to tell it like it was.

 

It's becoming like buying lottery tickets. Things are so bad now that as I said, the diesel on the rear is treated as a norm. As far as I know there has been nothing sent by RTC to all passengers explaining why the diesel was on the train and apologising for the manner in which the train ran. Les didn't have enough information to make a proper announcement on the train. Needless to say no-one from WCR took the microphone to explain to passengers what was happening and why. They never do. We used to get that when EWS/DB were the TOC on trains we travelled on. Still have no idea where the adverse rail conditions were. The weather wasn't bad up north for a January Saturday. Misty over part of the S&C and a bit mizzly on the run to Wilpshire; but that was about it. Didn't see anything that should have troubled a Royal Scot with load 11. Presumably WCR made a track inspection that had to have been early in the morning to have arranged for a driver and a fuelled up 47802 to be waiting for us at Carnforth. Would be good to see the report wouldn't it?

Don't like the situation we find ourselves in. If the train runs and gets to the stated destination and back, how WCR choose to run it is beyond the gift of RTC and outside Ts&Cs.

But mugs as we are we still take the risk and pay lots of money to do these trains in the hope of getting what we pay for. Its hard to give up a hobby we've had for 39 years and actually managed to get 932 proper steam runs out of so far. We don't talk about the other 30 odd trains we've paid for and walked away from; but suffice it to say too many of them have been in the last few years.

This makes me chuckle. The only email I have received from RTC is the standard one because we travelled on Saturday. It says: "Thank you very much for travelling with us on The Winter Cumbrian Mountain Express trip on Saturday. We do hope you had an enjoyable time and made many happy memories with The Railway Touring Company". Doh! Then at the bottom it says 'If you have time, we would be very grateful to receive your comments on our TripAdvisor page or a Google review'. I have lots of time. Should I? What do you think? Answers on a postcard ...

 

It looks as if they actually reply to every Trip Advisor review, so if you do post a review you're bound to get a reply from them. Out of 909 reviews, 116 of them were a one star rating, and if you filter the reviews to only show those one star ones, there are actually a fair few about diesels. So up to you...

 

A Scot with that load unaided will hold about 30mph max if its not flogged and not much more. Thats a fact.

 

Well I have more or less given up on main line steam as I don’t want to waste any more money on what is fast becoming a lost cause . But then I have been timing main line steam for 63 years so maybe time to stop,

 

In a word, no. From the layman's position of a lineside bog, it is often unclear why certain runs have a diesel and others do not (whilst acknowledging no right to complain in this 'freeloading' capacity). That said, we used to travel regularly on the WCME as it was usually a dead cert for pure steam (barring the first one from Manchester), but we no longer have that confidence. Seeing the Scot banked by a class 86 last May generated even more nervousness about what you might end up with.

The whole diesels on the back thing really does warrant some grown-up discussion. Listening to and constructively challenging an opposing argument can be a joyful thing, and partly what forums like this were established to facilitate in the first place. In this world of like vs. dislike and not much in-between, we would do well to respect and explore all the subtleties, nuances and grey areas of a good old fashioned debate.

 

I've read the 116 one star reviews and I didn't spot a single one about 'box on the back'. The diesel ones are nearly all about ' diesel replaced steam, no opportunity to cancel.' That is probably the single biggest gripe. Then food,comfort,cleanliness.

Reading through that lot is a salutary reminder of the sheer range of things which can go wrong, almost none of which are under the direct control of RTC, though some about communications are.

BUT that is 116 out of tens of thousands of travellers over the period. As with all these sites, the four star 'pretty happy' is seriously underrepresented.

As for the CME, I will reserve judgement on whether life has changed until after 11/2 and 18/3.

 

You can tell that most of the reviewers don't know much about railway operations and most are probably not even aware of whether there is a diesel on the back or not, and if they are they are not bothered by it. So long as there is a steam engine on the front that looks the part, they are perfectly happy. We have to realise that we "hard core" enthusiasts are in the minority.

 

Maybe this would be more up your street:

https://steamdreamsblog.com/2022/04/11/the-emerald-isle-explorer-2023/

particularly noting that:

"... some passengers will be pleased to know that it is in fact not allowed for a diesel to work with steam so no diesel-assisted sections! "

And yes, please do leave a Tripadvisor review for the CME.

Nick M.

 

It is certainly the case that we "hard core" enthusiasts are in the minority, but remember that many of us pay for many more trips each year than the tourists. I always travel dining class with my wife and spend thousands annually. However, in recent years we are travelling considerably fewer times with the RTC because of the uncertainty about the motive power.