Green Arrow

they wond do a new monobloc cos it would not then be the original

 

Possibly - though if casting a new mono-bloc cylinder was seen as prohibitive to any restoration, wouldn't another option be to restore the loco with three separate cylinders, but conserve and display the original cylinders as a standalone item? In that way, the loco could run but the technological advance represented by the original would be more clearly visible than it would be when attached to a locomotive? Or would doing that start to run into additional issues with requiring frame modifications etc?

Tom

 

I'm sure I read somewhere that it was the monobloc casting for the cylinders that earned Green Arrow its place in the National Collection. I do believe some V2s did leave works near the end with three separate cylinders rather than the monobloc, but then a V2 with three separate cylinders becomes just like any other three cylinder engine.

A pity in some sense that so many scrapyards were much quicker at dispatching locomotives than Dai Woodham a shame one more V2 didn't survive, like it would have been nice for another A3 to have survived. As has been noted by other posters, nothing makes a noise like a V2!

 

Until the cylinder block is fully inspected and tested no one knows quite what has to be dealt with. The cylinder casting has been repaired in the past but that was years ago. What was difficult years ago is, in so many fields, far more easily achieved now.
So the block needs a repair. The rest of the engine was in good order. Any repair work that might be required has been carried out before. No real hurdles there, given the finance all is possible, similar work is carried out on a regular basis in many locations, not just in the UK either.
If the mono block is beyond repair then a replacement can be produced. It might be fabricated with chrome pearlitic iron liners and with due care few would notice the difference. A modern casting would be a challenge but not insurmountable. Two cylinders are quite regularly cast as one unit, not as two individual units bolted together. I wonder if the Cast Metals Federation could be of assistance.

 

It seems to me that if green arrow was initially preserved for its monoblock cylinder, the best way to educate folks about it would be to hoik it out of the loco and pop it in display, is certainly be interested in seeing it. Once you've done that then repairing the loco won't damage the historical integrity as you've preserved the important bit.

It's always felt like green arrow is the enthusiasts' Flying Scotsman, I'm sure folk would dig deep if the NRM (very understandably) said they couldn't afford it.

Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk

 

Shame @Anthony Coulls dosn't post on here anymore, although if @Thomas Bright is reading this, if your Editor fancies an appeal for another NRM loco... The balls in your court!

 

To Speculate, if it was repaired in the past due to cracking, then it may have been welded up.
So if its cracked again, that makes a second weld repair slightly more complicated if the damage now is related to the first original crack. More digging out to do, and a PWHT stress relief would be prudent.
Its expensive work, and its not great to weld repair things multiple times over and over, its often just more economical to start again. Then again, how big is the crack? She ran with this crack in service right?

Thing is tho, this all means a heavy overhaul, and I dare say the NRM wont want to get in to another one of those in a hurry!

 

See post 23 in this thread.....

 

I don't believe that the NRM will ever take on another major overhaul themselves. If one is ever to be carried out it will be outsourced. They were badly let down by their in house team last time. Once bitten etc. etc. And as for work being carried out in the future find a member of staff to talk to, be very, very discreet and if you are lucky much will be revealed.
I agree with you that the cylinder casting will require very careful examination. I don't know the exact nature of the repair methods attempted to date and it could be that these attempts have made further repair efforts impossible or very close to it. It might be helpful if the NRM could be transparent with respect to this matter since you might suppose that they held full records. But as for holding my breath, no chance.
Conserving and displaying the old block in conjunction with a new block being produced will probably be the best solution.

 

Don't ever remember saying that the old block should be discarded... indeed it would be a superb exhibit in its own right and could always be placed back into the loco ( admittedly at some considerable expense) at a later date... In terms of value for money 6229 seems a better bet but people don't seem to be putting their hands into pockets for LMS Pacifics at the moment.

 

Difficult to see that the cylinder block would have wide appeal as an exhibit, plus it needs space. 35029 shows a sectioned cylinder which surely provides more insight into cylinder construction and operation to those interested in such things, and there are other bits that would offer more bang for the buck and less appetite for real estate such as sectioned axleboxes, injectors etc, even a Melesco header/multiple valve regulator (which seems to have been banished to Wroughton wherever that is). Looking at the NRM's website, there is no obvious engineering expertise at senior level, so they are probably nervous about committing to anything that require oversight. Looking at this press release http://www.nrm.org.uk/aboutus/pressoffice/pressreleases/2017/july/paul-kirkman-steps-down , it seems that the NRM has bigger fish to fry at the moment than individual locos. In terms of third parties putting up the costs, the oversight issue remains, and the NRM is presumably very nervous about the project stalling part way through (there seem to be one or two examples of overhauls of locos started with a lot of noise and then abandoned) and finding themselves with a collection of bits.

 

Wroughton is the old airfield just outside Swindon. It's a Science Museum store, amongst other things

 

Considering that SR seems to contain without fail at least one very negative article about the NRM each month at the moment, I suspect that some bridge building may be needed (or alternatively the author of said articles leave SR) before any progress were made in that direction.

 

The last 3 issues of SR have included a detailed interview with the NRM which has provided ample opportunity for the museum to put the record straight, but given ongoing strange decisions with deaccesioning assets I feel they have a long way to go on this still with many enthusiasts such as myself.
An appeal to restore Green Arrow would go a long way to help regain some trust, but I would agree there is certainly no appetite from the museum to do this themselves. This is why I would suggest a move to the GCR does represent an opportunity for a group to put a restoration proposal forward, either for mainline use or at least on this most appropriate of heritage railways.
Interesting that Gordon Hodgson in SR said that a poll amongst West Coast drivers named this loco as most missed - popular amongst drivers too!

 

But what about firemen? IIRC, LNER fireholes tend to be low down and rather small!

 

Being low down is an advantage as long as it isn't too low and any decent fireman can cope with a rat trap firehole door.

 

After the complete dogs dinner they made of 60103 I sincerely hope that they never attempt an overhaul again. The V2 could be contracted out to Ian Riley or another organisation who know what they were doing. If they are so worried about the monobloc would it not be possible, given the funds, to replace it but retain the original for when it is stuffed and mounted again?

 

I think the negativity Is no more than NRM deserve at the present time

 

I think Rileys as well as being a centre of excellence for black 5s will soon become the same for Gresley 3 cylindered.

 

Possibly so, but its not going to harbour any sort of positive relationship going forward. Much like my favourite football club who have fallen out with the local rag at the moment who bleat and moan that the club won't speak to them, whilst also simultaneously constantly printing negative nonsense about the club, suits media outlets as its cheap stories meaning they don't have to spend money on journalists seeing out stories.

Still intrigued what the NRM have done against a certain SR journalist to make him now act like a spurned 15 year old.....