Preservation movement, Growth

As we still experiencing growth in the preservation movement, volunteers, track milage?

 

Extensions certainly, there are a few that will be complete in 5 years or so
Volunteers, there are alot of older people about, I should think it will stay roughly the same. Although there are decreasing amounts of people who remember steam.
Donations will drop steadily as The taxman takes more and more.

 

thanks very much, yes an interesting point about those who remember steam

 

I've never accepted the point about remembering steam - after all, how many of the millions who visit National Trust properties have ever lived in a Stately Home!

 

thats thought provoking.....at some point in the future then, when all the people who remember steam have shuffled off this mortal coil, that means we can finally get away from the mania for BR black..... (it seems it is these people who like it....)

 

I prefer BR black and I was born quite a few years after steam

 

But of course here in 82045-land we have a choice of two equally appropriate colours. http://www.82045.org.uk/

Sorry to remain off topic.

 

I personally think new builds will slow down over the next few years, now Tornado has been done the new build fashion will drop. The people doing these projects need to get their key supporters now and get as much done as possible

 

I fervently hope that the opposite will be the case. New build locomotives may well be the key to the future and, as I've said in another thread, locos (and the plural is intentional) like 82045 may well be the way ahead. Heritage railways could well find themselves doing what they were originally built for, to carry passengers and more importantly, freight. I'd even like to go so far as to say that Honda at Swindon should not bother to re-start production of cars but build locos and rolling stock instead - steam and electric! Tornado is just the start.

 

I can't see this happening to be honest, there are few lines that can be useful for carrying freight.

New builds have a part but I can't see batches being produced. If you have too many new ones they may lose their magic.

 

Many of the current economic indicators are pointing to a rail-based transport system in the future. I can see heritage lines growing and carrying passengers and freight whilst still fulfilling their heritage roles. Indeed, one might argue that if they don't they won't survive - but that's on another thread. The USA has just woken up to the need for fast rail-based serives again, all our railways are being used so much people are crying out for new lines and heritage lines are all experiencing good custom in the middle of the worst economic crisis I've ever known. Yes, these railways are going to need new locomotives - some of them will be new steam and the petrol engined car will be something we laugh at in a museum - I think its already happening now. I just hope I live to see it.

 

I was born in the BR black ear so thats all I can remeber really, yes we have many locos in LNER green and LMS red, surely their cant be many alike who rember those colours can they?

 

I think as a point of interest which someone has already mentioned would be the change in preserved railway usage for midweek passenger operations and freight usage for public transport deficits, especially with our road network being in the state it is, it will be interesting to see how the next 50 years will materialise, not that I`ll be around

 

Interesting to see the post that new builds are going to drop off now that Tornado is done.
I open my recent issues of Steam Railway, and see article after article about new builds....
Admittedly, not all of these may come to fruition (though I see one group may actually be going to order TWO of their class, as the main cost is the pattern making!!), but I don't see evidence for this claimed drop off.

BTW - anyone interested in buying shares in the new build Baldwin 'Lyn' for the L&B please contact me!!! \/

 

Thats the only new build I am interested in!!!!!

The claim that heritage railways will be increasinly used for freight I feel is an incredibly flawed one for many reasons! For a start the freight infrastucture at most heritage lines has been destroyed (goods sheds etc), and those that have survived lack the means of conveying goods from lorry to rail due to car parks etc. Equally, alot of heritage railways operate to and from relatively small communities negating the need for mass haulage of goods! Also, a freight haulage company down Southampton (can't remember the name, not freightliner) has recently LOST a freight contract because it is cheaper for the company to sail their goods PAST Southampton and up to Liverpool then it is for them to do it by rail, as their larger containers don't fit under mainline railway bridges, let alone heritage railways!

I wouldn't disagree with the increasing use of railways for local traffic, which may include limited local freight movements, but the infrastucture simply isn't there for heritage railways to convey large amounts of goods. It is impractical, unless a large sum of money is made available to make it so!

 

I think that growth in freight traffic on heritage lines is unlikely. For a start you needs goods to move. Then you need a producer and a market, or an onward destination via a connection. The volume of traffic must be sufficient to warrant movement by rail.

How many lines, primarily built for a scenic ride to offer to the family on their day out, have these essential features? Large industies with a need to ship by rail next to heritage rail lines are in short supply. Forrestry may be one option but their needs to be a complete processing cycle connected by rail. Forrest to sawmill with no transhipment.

As the UK is mostly a service based economy what are you going to move?

Sorry I just don't see two parcels of Aunty Dorothy's Home Made Rural Cookies as a basis for a sustainable, dedicated heritage freight sector. One offs and low volume parcel traffic maybe

 

You are indeed quite correct. Movement of freight on heritage lines is always likely to be minimal. But let us not forget that there are occasional niche opportunities that can be exploited. The West Somerset Railway has now benefited from four separate contracts to move stone, two of them short term, but two which have involved trains of around 800-1000tons or more several times a week for well over a year. The current arrangement with Network Rail for disposal of spent ballast sees a long ballast train (up to 22 bogie hoppers) with top-and-tail Class 66s arriving on most weekday mornings.

David

 

It's probably getting away from the topic, but that attitude really frustrates me, and I think misses the point of preservation. I would have thought that preservation was as much about preserving what came before living memory as what came later, basically pre 1923 & 1948 is AT LEAST as important as post '48.

 

Quite right, David. I think the key word is "exploited". The WSR's ability to win these contracts is down to at least two major reasons. First, investment in the railway's infrastructure (strengthening bridges; improving the track; new loops and signalling; upgrading the signalling at the junction) much of it done quietly over many years; and second, the railway's management having the will and skills to seek and win new contracts. The heritage side of the WSR benefits from the improvements and profits of this investment and enterprise.

All good for the heart of those who have stuck with the WSR for so many years. How satisfying to learn last week that a long ballast train was waiting to access the Minehead Branch as soon as Kinlet Hall rejoined the main network en route for the Midlands. Almost a queue

Steve
(WSW)

 

I think it's a case of wait and see. Times and priorities change. Industrial and housing estates get built. Roads get clogged and something that was uneconomic 50 or 60 years ago, suddenly becomes viable because the infrastructure is not only there, it's cared for and in use. This single fact completely changes the economic case. I'm not saying I expect the Severn Valley, for instance, to suddenly open up to commuter trains to Birmingham, but it's a damn sight more likely to happen than if it was just a cycle path/overgrown trackbed. Not now; not even by 2020 probably: but 2030, who knows?

We did a freight job a year or so ago for Severn Trent, carried a load of big blue pipes to Trimpley Reservoir that could not have got there by road. They were quite happy and most impressed with the accurate and swift unloading with our 1935 6-ton steam crane. A niche market, yes, but you takes your chances where you gets 'em. Just keep an open mind.

Just a couple of "for instances," the WSR has been mentioned, the Swanage is poised, the Bluebell's horizons are going to swell when they reach EG and, of course, Tunbridge Wells and Eridge is going to blossom. Bring it on!