Windcutter Wagons

Thanks for this Martin,
I have dug out my notes now on these two mystery not-16T wagons. You are correct that as well as the buffers, the handbrake arrangement also differed on D2153. I do have that in my notes but forgot when posting the other day. One of the jobs on my 'to do' list (but it is a long list) is to take a look at the preserved wagons and see if there is any evidence of the handbrake being altered (e.g. any redundant fixing holes). The only other possibility would be that D2153 was altered mid-lot (which would not be unheard of, but seems unlikely for a small batch of wagons) or that these are indeed something else.

What we do know about that pair is that they have BR(M) registration numbers 187443 (B279723) & 187439 (B279724), allocated 1966, and this leads us to understand that they are from a batch of 115 vehicles refurbished by Standard Wagon in about 1964 for hire to Imperial Smelting for iron ore traffic. It's believed that within this fleet they were numbers 1016 & 1012 respectively. The "missing info" is tying this data back to earlier (presumably BR) numbers. This traffic continued until about 1974.

We also know that BR/C.C.Crump refurbished a number of iron ore wagons (mainly tipplers) for ICI Winnington soda ash traffic in 1975; these were given TOPS numbers 5700-5819. Given the dates and similar number of vehicles it seems quite likely that these were more-or-less the same fleet of wagons; it is therefore possible that these two wagons ended up in this fleet, especially given that earlier 16T mineral wagon conversions for ICI soda ash traffic (bought by C.C.Crump 1971 according to Wiki) subsequently went to Rover (Longbridge), which is where this pair were preserved from along with four of the 16T conversions. The Rover numbers 1-6 are all mixed up together between them too, so it seems most likely they all went to Rover at the same time. Wiki also says that the 16T conversions were 'scrapped' in 1979, which leads to the next mystery.

Paul Bartlett in 1979 photographed three ex-CEGB Kearsley tippler wagons at Reddish (Standard Wagon):
https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/paulbartlettsrailwaywagonphotographs/h8cb5f4d
https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/paulbartlettsrailwaywagonphotographs/h12c396e2
https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/paulbartlettsrailwaywagonphotographs/h116afc1b
Now, from various details I am fairly certain that CEGB17 = Rover 3 = B279723, and CEGB23 = Rover 2 = B279724. The fate of CEGB20 is unknown, but note that this one although otherwise similar does have spindle buffers. (Still the wrong handbrake though!)

Paul also photographed (in 1979/1982 according to captions) four ex-Soda Ash wagons withdrawn at Reddish, and I am certain that these are the four ex-16T minerals which went with the above two to Rover, i.e. Rover nos. 1, 4, 5 & 6. He also recorded sufficient details that we now have the 1970 (Standard Wagon / ICI Winnington) ID for those four. (Although only one has subsequently regained its BR number, because the underframe is stamped.)

CEGB Kearsley is an interesting site; it was a coal-fired power station but in 1965 the 'A' boilers were converted to oil firing, and in 1979 apparently they experimented with burning Bolton's refuse to generate electricity. And it closed in 1980. So how this all ties in with a fleet of wagons standing idle at Reddish in 1979 I'm not sure, and I'm also not sure how this ties in with being refurbished for ICI Winnington in 1975. That bit doesn't quite add up.

If anyone can add any more to this tangle of mystery I'd be very interested. (PM perhaps, to keep this thread tidy.)

Likewise if anyone has any records to tie BRB or BR(M) numbers to earlier BR fleet numbers. This seems vanishingly unlikely at this point, but I live in hope!

Phil

 

We were at Quorn yesterday and made a start on #98. I cleared out another three dustbins of rubbish whilst Julian cut out two rusty sections. This is to show what sort of work is involved in keeping these wagons running. I also tidied the other wagons paintwork.

As can be seen we are doing a "Letterbox" repair on the East side as the lower repair sheet is still very thick steel and is part of the wagons history.
All this is in preparation for this coming weekend's 50th anniversary of the Preserved GCR.

 

I have sometimes wondered how much time is spent on doing one of our wagon restorations.... I think it is about 250 hours (made up of 6 months = 24 weeks x two people Ave 5 hours per day = 10, so 10 x 24 = 250 ish).
So I will try to keep a record of the hours spent on #98. So far it is 1 x 2 + 2 x 2 so 6 hr

 

I’ve just had a look at the photos of B279723 and 24 and at least one of the pair has brake shoes on one side only as per the standard BR diagram 1/108 but the Tippler ‘family’ starting with D2153 had independent brakes on each side and tie bars because of the great weight of iron ore. It’s a pity that at least one wagon to D2153 didn’t survive as the prototype ‘Tippler’ but I suppose having 27 tons of iron ore dumped into them for 30 odd years would be a bit hard on what was designed originally as a 16 ton coal carrier.

I follow ‘Windcutter wagons’ with interest as it is important that ‘Joe public’ is made aware that the railway system in the UK evolved to carry tons of house coal about and not for Flying Scotsman et al to whisk the upper classes to and from their country estates!
Regards
Martin

 

Hi Martin,
Sorry but you're wrong, they both have independent brakes on each side. The double-V hanger is the obvious giveaway, but trust me, I have spent considerable time looking at this pair!
Phil

 

Meanwhile work continues on #16 back in the shed at Rothley. The new vac pipe needed a small "joggle" so the C & W hydraulic pipe bender was pressed into use...

 

Work on #16 continues at Rothley with more rebuilding of the North end dragbox.


Plus some tidying up after more floor welding on the inside


And some repair work on the South end headstock so the new vac pipe will have a secure end clamp.

 

Work has continued on wagon #16 with the new section of headstock being welded into position.


We have also been putting more floor repair sections in place.


For a bit of variety a brake van has been "Refreshed" with a quick spray varnish.

 

In case of doubt, the other side of the brake van has also been refreshed...and I emptied a bucket of ash from the clogged up stove. Guards are good at lighting fires but nobody ever cleans it out afterwards!

The footboards were also smartened up to finish the job after this photo.

 

Here we are with the quick "refresh" of the Brake van completed.


Back to 16T mineral wagons next post!

 

The end door on our Black 16T mineral wagon now has its handles back in place!

 

We had our Information/Sales stand at Quorn for the QW & W Weekend with other wagon groups. It was very quiet on Saturday with lots of rain, but Sunday was brighter and busier.
Three of us were working today and the North end headstock has new triangular gusset plates welded in place, the South East corner has been repaired and more black undersealing has been done.

 

Another good workday on Wed with three welders patching uprights and gusset plates, then some priming and headstock painting.

 

We have had five people working on #16 this week and we are getting closer to finishing! A lot of work has gone into the underframe replacing gusset plates - all of which is never seen again!
However the North end headstock now has its buffers in place and is all painted. There is still the vac pipe to be fitted and three floor sections at the North end and the lower edge to the North end. Hopefully this can be done in time for display at the "Railway at work" gala (Aug 19/20th).

 

Spot the difference!


Yes.... we now have a vacuum pipe installed together with the final South end gusset plates, the second half of the North end floor, together with the first narrow side floor, tacked into place on the North East side. So very nearly finished.
We are hoping that the C & W staff will be able to get this wagon to the front of the shed for the Railway at Work Gala in front of our Information /Sales stand.
The Windcutter rake will be running on both the Saturday and Sunday so the team are looking forward to seeing and hearing our wagons in action.

 

I would just like to thank those (same few!) who post their "likes" on here. It is a niche interest, and having some 30 steel mineral wagons to look after, inevitably feels a bit "Same as Same as" with these updates, but I hope there are also a silent number who enjoy (?) keeping up to date with our work.

 

As one of the latter Phil, I'd just like to say thanks for your updates, I look forward to reading them.

 

As one with a couple of niche interests myself, Snowploughs and On Track Plant, I do appreciate the work you do.
Keep on doing what you do.

 

Those of us who spend our time restoring wagons (of various types) appreciate the efforts of our like minded brethren across other railways

 

...and this is why we do it....


The 9F had been deliberately not cleaned for the last few weeks to add an authenticity to the "Railways at Work event. There were two other freight trains running as "Pick up Goods"