30120

Even better if both were in LSWR livery.

I'm eagerly anticipating the official announcement on the future of the T9.

 

I'm not so sure about that, if the T3 stays in LSWR Livery you will have two engines in liveries that match the time span of the service life of Southern pre grouping 4-4-0's 563 in early LSWR, so showing the engine at the time of their first use 30120 in the livery of the end of most 4-4-0's at the end of their service lives.
but the sheer spectical of having 2, ( 3 if the M7 is done by then) in steam together whats there not to like?

 

But in your first post in this thred fyou said thatr the move gave you cause for alalarm?

 

Yes that is true, and i still do, my concern is on what kind of conditions the NRM may place on a future overhaul , for instance, the original fabric of the engine has to be at the point where some very large bits, cylinder block and drag box will need further work or potensially replacement .

 

The NRM clearly has more locos than it wants, hence giving away 563, 2818 etc. Therefore perhaps it might relax it's rules in future, allowing 120 to remain a working loco rather than returning to York where there is no room for it.

For example maybe they would allow replacement of the cylinder block, providing the original is kept and can be refitted in future if necessary.

 

That would be the best outcome for the engine, but then, they would have gifted 2 engines to the same railway, ok it may not be a problem, as the MHR have 2 NRM engines . but i would imagine questions may be asked of is it right to in effect give 2 engines away , As long as it remains in the south, then loan visits to Swanage are always a possibility if based elsewhere,

 

Regarding returning (30)120 to LSWR livery: 120's appearance was changed significantly when superheating was added - extended smokebox, loss of front "wing plates", etc. The first one, 314, was finished in 1922 and 5 more were completed before the grouping. It would be just about OK for 120 to wear the final form of LSWR livery, though she wasn't rebuilt until 1927, 2 years after receiving Southern livery. There's a picture of 702 in 1923, ex-works after her rebuild, on p42 of LSWR Locomotives: The Drummond Classes by D. L. Bradley (Wild Swan, 1986).

Amusingly, 120 can also authentically wear the inauthentic almost-but-not-quite-LSWR pea green she carried on rail tours in the 1960s - though not, of course a more accurately-LSWR shade!

 

For me, Southern green on 563 and either BR black or Southern green on 120

 

I never said the T9 would be gifted to anyone, the NRM will retain ownership. I just suggested they may relax their policy on replacing parts to allow it to remain in Steam and on loan to a railway (which may or may not be Swanage).

 

better not think about 4771/60800 then, same scenario surely & that's stuffed & mounted.

 

at least 30120 has 2 years left on her certificate, a lot depends on the attitude of the NRM as regards the engine, they have other 4-4-0's so may decide to release it than have to make room for it since the NRM became part of the Science museum group its focas has changed as no doubt it needs to earn revenue to off set budget cuts so they could very well decide that more revenue earning space is more important than a locomotive that has never been displayed at the NRM.

 

I believe it has been announced that the T9 will be overhauled.

 

Good news, in my opinion. I like to see locos working, not stuffed and mounted, and if it means that original components which are past repairing, have to be binned and replaced with a new part, so be it. I don't get this "originality" thing at all, as long as it looks like it always did, and performs, so what if some hidden parts are new. The railways did it all the time when steam locos were running so why be different now?

If it was up to me, every single one at the NRM, apart from a few very early ones,. like the original Rocket, for example, would be reconditioned and made into runners again and rotated around appropriate Heritage lines, like Gladstone and SECR 737 to The Bluebell, Lode Star and the Dean to the GWSR or Severn Valley, the various NER ones to the NYMR, and so on

Gets coat, and awaits flak......

 

You might need something more than a coat...

 

This has always seemed to me to be the obvious solution to these conundrums; it's a classic have/eat cake solution. Are there any drawbacks which I am missing?

Noel

 

I think 46229's original tender tank was kept and a replacement made during its last overhaul in the late 1980's.

 

I see the point, but don't see the point in refitting a worn out, and therefore useless, part. If the block has been replaced with a new component, why?

If you want to keep the original just as a kind of memento, I suppose you can.

 

The current cylinder block is probably not the original, this argument could be made about any loco. Mallard was put back in working order with the minimum work to preserve its integrity but since it wasn't built it's had nine different boilers and wheels were regularly changed between locos at overhaul. It's also not in its original state when it broke the record either, different tende and the plaque commemorating the event shouldn't be there either. I agree with you, the best way to show future generations what the steam age was about is to have working locos.

 

The argument will be about historical authenticity of the locomotive as was, as opposed to using modern parts and techniques. As for restoring all National Collection locos, I think you may need to win Euromillions to make that happen!

Reverting specifically to 120, I would be very surprised if the NRM changed their policy to suit 120 with 2 years on it's ticket, when that policy has caused other locos to be removed from service in ticket.

 

No policy won't be changed now. But if the choice ever had to be made between replacing the cylinder block and the loco being a static exhibit for ever more, who knows.

The NRM have recently said they are keen to ensure 120's future as a working loco. Also policy has changed on other things recently, such as giving away Locos.