If you register, you can do a lot more. And become an active part of our growing community. You'll have access to hidden forums, and enjoy the ability of replying and starting conversations.

Boiler tubes.

الموضوع في 'Steam Traction' بواسطة Eightpot, بتاريخ ‏14 سبتمبر 2021.

  1. Eightpot

    Eightpot Resident of Nat Pres Friend

    إنضم إلينا في:
    ‏10 أوت 2006
    المشاركات:
    8,340
    عدد المعجبين:
    2,506
    الجنس:
    ذكر
    الوظيفة:
    Engineer Emeritus
    مكان الإقامة:
    Aylesbury
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    I've yet to come across anything on this, but is it normal practice for the ends of boiler tubes to be annealed, or not, prior to fitting and expanding them?
     
  2. estwdjhn

    estwdjhn Member

    إنضم إلينا في:
    ‏24 يناير 2013
    المشاركات:
    342
    عدد المعجبين:
    693
    الوظيفة:
    Boilermaker
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    You open here something of a can of worms.

    It's certainly not uncommon, some suppliers do it as a matter of course.

    A lot of people don't bother, and it generally doesn't seem to make a difference.

    I think modern tube generally comes in a normalised state, this wasn't necessary the case in the past, so historically it may well have been more important. One factor to consider if you are relying on the state the tube is supplied is the extent to which it's been cold worked (and thus work hardened) by swaging or swelling at the tube ends (again some suppliers do this hot, others cold, some aneal afterwards, some don't).

    What is poor practice (because it leads to excess thinning of the tube wall) is using plain tubes where they should be swelled, and just winding them out to fit with roller type expanders.

    If you're curious about this sort of thing, the HRA guidance note is probably worth a read - although all it says on this topic is "the tubes must be normalised before fitting" (which would imply an expectation that this would be done by the supplier - not many boilersmiths would sensibly be able to generate the controlled conditions required to normalise a full tube)
     
    Steve, Richard Roper, Aberdare و 1 شخص آخر معجبون بهذا.
  3. Steve

    Steve Resident of Nat Pres Friend

    إنضم إلينا في:
    ‏7 اكتوبر 2006
    المشاركات:
    12,734
    عدد المعجبين:
    11,852
    الوظيفة:
    Gentleman of leisure, nowadays
    مكان الإقامة:
    Near Leeds
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    As John says, some railways do this as a matter of course. It is something I've never done and never had any problems in not doing so, and this includes industrial boilers, as well as locos. If boiler tubes are supplied to spec, which they should be, then the specs require them to be normalised and the supplier should provide such after any swelling of the tube ends has been carried out. Whilst normalising and annealing are not the same I would suggest that annealing a normalised tube is not necessary and it should be possible to expand the tube without problem.
     
  4. clinker

    clinker Member

    إنضم إلينا في:
    ‏8 اكتوبر 2016
    المشاركات:
    612
    عدد المعجبين:
    372
    الجنس:
    ذكر
    مكان الإقامة:
    romford
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    I've always made a point of annealing the ends of tubes before fitting, and would expect anyone doing the job for Me to anneal the tubes.
     
  5. Steve

    Steve Resident of Nat Pres Friend

    إنضم إلينا في:
    ‏7 اكتوبر 2006
    المشاركات:
    12,734
    عدد المعجبين:
    11,852
    الوظيفة:
    Gentleman of leisure, nowadays
    مكان الإقامة:
    Near Leeds
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    Why?
     
  6. clinker

    clinker Member

    إنضم إلينا في:
    ‏8 اكتوبر 2016
    المشاركات:
    612
    عدد المعجبين:
    372
    الجنس:
    ذكر
    مكان الإقامة:
    romford
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer

    Well, in simple terms I suppose that if you are working/stretching or otherwise manipulating metal, of any sort it makes more sense, to Me at any rate to do it to 'Softer' rather than 'harder' material, particularly given that the materials will 'Work harden', another point is that it may be that a 'Softer' tube end had better 'frictional qualities' when expanded into a hole than 'Harder' material. I supose that You wouldn't expect a farrier to make a horse shoe from cold steel, would You? To Me it just seems like common sense.
     
  7. Steve

    Steve Resident of Nat Pres Friend

    إنضم إلينا في:
    ‏7 اكتوبر 2006
    المشاركات:
    12,734
    عدد المعجبين:
    11,852
    الوظيفة:
    Gentleman of leisure, nowadays
    مكان الإقامة:
    Near Leeds
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    If the tubes are supplied normalised, as the spec requires, they are relatively soft. It is the act of expanding them that will work harden them. Annealing them in air will result in them getting a layer of oxide which then needs removing, which is more work.
     
    estwdjhn, Aberdare و jnc معجبون بهذا.
  8. clinker

    clinker Member

    إنضم إلينا في:
    ‏8 اكتوبر 2016
    المشاركات:
    612
    عدد المعجبين:
    372
    الجنس:
    ذكر
    مكان الإقامة:
    romford
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Who said anything about annealing them in air?
     
  9. 32110

    32110 Member

    إنضم إلينا في:
    ‏20 ماي 2006
    المشاركات:
    649
    عدد المعجبين:
    794
    الجنس:
    ذكر
    الوظيفة:
    Retired from full time paid work
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    So in a vacuum or inert gas?
     
  10. Steve

    Steve Resident of Nat Pres Friend

    إنضم إلينا في:
    ‏7 اكتوبر 2006
    المشاركات:
    12,734
    عدد المعجبين:
    11,852
    الوظيفة:
    Gentleman of leisure, nowadays
    مكان الإقامة:
    Near Leeds
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    Wouldn’t cause any oxidation of the steel that way
     

مشاركة هذه الصفحة