Door locks

There is an article in the Daily Mail (23 April 2023) entitled

Historic train carriages are taken out of service... because Gen Z passengers can't work out how to open the doors

https://preview.tinyurl.com/23xu5mly

How much is this REALLY a problem?

 

Wow. That's a hard hitting article about heritage railways. I'm particularly drawn to one sentence:

"Volunteers at a heritage railway in the north of England told the Daily Mail of operational staff being drunk on duty and drivers regularly passing red signals – describing the railway as 'an asylum'. "

I don't know where that has come from or which railway is being referred to but it is certainly going beyond the discussion on coach door opening.

 

Generation not brought up with something allegedly doesn't understand how it works. More hard hitting news from the Third Reich's favourite newspaper printing a variant of this boomer meme:

 

This enthusiast has found those doors confusing.

 

And presumably you aren't a member of the much maligned Gen Z.

 

More that Gen Z (and millenials, and Gen X, and probably many boomers) can't work out how to *close* non-slam lock doors.

 

No - my kids (I think) are... It's the Heil, it misrepresents. But the issue is genuinely present - I've previously told the story of how a friend's university student son was overcarried on an HST because he'd never met a slam door and couldn't work out how to open the door.

 

Non-enthusiasts struggle to open slap locks, enthusiasts struggle to shut them
(That's from nearly 14 years of platform work).

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A lady the other day whilst stood in the vestibule looking at the door, asked her other half 'is that the door?'.
These weren't young people...

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I'm not going to open a link to a Daily Mail article on principle... however, if you've ever opened a toilet door on a modern train with those push-button doors, to find someone perched on the throne looking embarrassed, you would conclude that many people can't work modern doors either.

 

HST's apart though its been a long time since 'slam doors' ran on the national network

 

I did post some quotes from this article from the railway's staff in the SVR thread, but will repeat this one here as its the only mention of younger people from the source.

The Severn Valley Railway's health and safety manager, Richard Morris, said 'There have been some events where the Great Western carriage doors have been found to be open on arrival at stations or mid-section (while train is moving). Lack of awareness from a younger demographic of visitor and ever increasing pressure from the rail regulator means the railway has to be proactive.'

I would suggest it would be the latter reason stated in that sentence which is far more responsible for the current situation. Like most MSM articles I have the misfortunate of stumbling across these days the headline is a misleading one.

 

Interesting you should say that. I've often felt with slam doors - in deference to the age and perhaps a subconscious view of their frailty - that the tendency is to try to close them too gently, with the result they only half close. Whereas with older locks, closing is often easy, but you have to remember to lean out of the window and turn the door handle to complete the process, something easily missed if you are not familiar with them.

So I am not convinced that slam door locks are inherently better than older style, and it would be a shame to mass-convert older locks to newer ones. Training of platform staff - and having adequate numbers of staff - would seem to me to be the better protection.

(And yes, in modern trains - they aren't free from peril. In particular, on several occasions I've been trapped in a door between the saloon and vestibule of a cross country voyager which has chosen to shut too fast, particularly if you are just following someone in front who opened it. They aren't designed to get large numbers of people on and off, as happens in rush hour).

Tom

 

Also from my experience at the Bluebell gala yesterday often difficult to achieve when the window does not want to come down easily as well.

And on a total thread drift Tom, based on the local news story about Salisbury Council Tax increases when will you be launching "your appeal"

 

Conversely I see plenty of people who think the best way to shut a slam door to fling it shut hard enough to make your ears ring 100 ft away.
Personally I prefer to push to them shut, in a firm motion but keeping my hand on the door. Maybe slower, but less noisy and I know it's shut.

The issue with slap locks is that people think they are slam locks and thus try to slam them behind them. Or, reach out and turn the door and then try to slam them. I have seen the later countless times, generally as I've calling out to them to stop.

GW slap lock also have a double action spring mechanism such that you have to fight a spring to open and shut them. Non-enthusiasts generally aren't confident to open them whilst enthusiasts are confident to do so but then struggle to close them if they aren't in the know.


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I was duty driver of the Swanage Railway's former Class 108 DMU many years ago [15 or more years?] and a coach party from Tesco, Southall [I believe] turned up for a ride.
Despite their differing ages, they all stood around waiting for doors to open as they couldn't find 'door open' buttons on the coach sides. All trains at Southall have had sliding doors for many years of course. The Guard and I had to open the doors for them to get on at Swanage as well as get off at Corfe Castle.
Lack of slam door knowledge is not a new problem for heritage railways.

 

That phrase is alarming.

The phrase about the GCR suffering a number of high profile incidents in recent years is quite true, but doesn’t mention (for uninitiated reader) that “recent years” means anything in the last decade apparently (the run away was 2014 and the derailment 2013).

I deduce from this that the Mail has decided to attack albeit “gently “ for them HRs. An interesting switch from what might be regarded as their more normal approach. Let’s hope this is a one off and not the start of a less friendly media. I cannot help feeling that we may be in for more “scrutiny” about a number of things (environment and volunteer relations for example). If so the collective game might need “upping”.

 

In many ways this is partly solvable by having the information on how to use the locks in any flyer/welcome leaflet given out on visitors arrival.

All heritage lines are now fast becoming educational experiences, not only the history of the line, the buildings, engines etc and the experience of travel in whatever era the line is set to, but also things like the types of door locks of the age.

Instead of allowing it to become a nuisance or a problem, make it part of the learning experience of the visitors, many who will not be old enough to remember the types of lock in daily use.

Additionally maintenance of the locks as well as the installing if them initially has to be done carefully. On the L&B we fit the locks initially so that the slightest push triggers the lock, once the lock has triggered the door is snapped shut. They don't need slamming. Obviously being wooden bodied carriages which will and do change shape means careful attention has to be applied in making sure the locks continue to operate properly. Mainline doors will inevitably need a bit more effort due to the increased size and weight of the door and the spring mechanisms in the locks.

One problem I have noted is that in that maintenance oil, or even grease is used to free up locks which begin to stick, this is a big no no as most locksmiths will know. Oil and grease attract dirt and over time it will actually cause more problems as the build up of that oil/grease and dirt becomes a goey mess and gums up the lock and will mean the lock wears quicker too. Additionally care has to be taken on how any lock with brass components are lubricated, brass is self lubricating and oil and grease can increase wear greatly due to dirt in the oil and grease wearing the brass away similar to what you would see griding valve seals on an engine block the old fashioned way.

Graphite is the best solution as its a dry lubricant, and all good locksmiths have a tin of it in their kit.

 

Still favour the Festiniog approach of locking outward opening doors, I've guarded some long & very busy trains there.

Just means that guards and platform staff have slightly more to do and need to be on the ball.

 

Why not have self adhesive labels on the drop glass explaining how to open/ close the door, ? that way the railway has covered its self from possible complaints, especially where GWR locks are concerned because they are not self latching , some instruction might be needed.