Flying Scotsman

Agreed

 

Most members of this forum don't participate in polls, many finding them tedious (we are here to discuss, not to decide) so it wouldn't be representative of anything much. And I expect somebody would object to the way the question was worded. Either way I doubt NRM would take much notice - they have already made up their minds how the loco will be outshopped this time.

A better idea would be for somebody (not me - I am far too lazy) to start an appeal which would enable people to put up their money in time for the next scheduled repaint or intermediate overhaul. I would happily contribute to appeals either for a BR livery paint job (retaining the double-chimney); or for a single-chimney conversion (in any livery). But I wouldn't expect either to happen for at least a year or two.

 

Thanks, DD seems to be ticking along nicely

 

How about fitting those useless vane smoke deflectors as per Woolwinder & Pretty Polly, or borrowing Tornado's (= Humorist)? Runs for cover.

Removing tongue from cheek; I would love to see a GN coal-rail tender, but not having my Green Bible or Yeadon handy, I don't know if 4472 was ever so fitted. I don't believe 60103 was.

 

You're entitled to your opinion. But if you are intent on contributing to something then isn't it worth doing some research to gauge the chances of success first? I for one wouldn't relish trying to distil these 26 pages.

 

My distilled memory of these 27 pages leads me to think either 'Don't care' or 'Double chimney, deflectors, BR green' will win. Hope you get a good turnout(I have broken the habit of a lifetime and voted for 'Don't care')! However NRM were already aware of the strong criticism of the current livery/chimney/deflector combination, ever since it was applied.

 

Yes - but not by them, specifically! Her spec as the double chimney scotsman was originally applied by McAlpine, and the LNER livery combination by Tony Marchington thereafter. The NRM inherited her in the current condition, and had plans to repaint her - but subsequent failures led to a withdrawal from service, and the rest is history (as I understand it).

Returning her to steam in LNER livery is the best option for her public profile for the moment. BR livery can be applied in the future.

Blaming the NRM for Scotsman's long running problems is a trite unfair I feel - particularly as most of the problems seem to stem from overhauls conducted under her previous owners.

 

It'll be interesting to see the final result - whether or not the NRM take any notice or not.

Two things though - how long is the poll open for & as per a post on the poll, could you change dont care for dont mind

Cheers

Dave

 

With respect I have not blamed NRM for the actions of previous owners. Only for NRM's decision to continue the incorrect (for double-chimney & deflectors) livery after the current overhaul. If, as you say, BR livery can be applied in the future why not do it now? What will be different at that time?

 

Flying Scotsman is a brand. You can't unveil her to the TV news crews and the public later this year after a 5 year and £1m+ overhaul in Brunswick Green and the number 60103. The public wouldn't recognise her. If you were to take 5972 Hogwarts Castle to publicise the next Harry Potter film but she's wearing her real name and GWR livery, you can't say to the public "Yea, it's the same engine but it's in an authentic livery." They won't really care for authenticity and would prefer to see the engine in the livery it's known for wearing.

 

^This exactly.

 

This perception problem will have to be faced at any time the livery is changed, five year gap or not.

 

1. The poll has no close date - it will no doubt die a natural death

2. Sorry for the sloppy English, but you can't edit a poll once set up.

Iain

 

Beg to differ, quite markedly so. You don't build up a brand, where colour of said brand is extremely important, and then change the colours on a whim. Changing the livery now would be damaging to Scotsman's return to steam. She needs to build up her profile once working, and have a livery refresh later down the line.

Otherwise you risk damaging the identity and recognition of the locomotive and brand name together.

Besides, does the public know Flying Scotsman as 4472 or 60103? Guaranteed, the answer is 4472. And that is how she should return.

Note, I'm not saying you can't or shouldn't do it. And yes, Steam Railway's appeal should be honoured. But I would like to think everyone who supports the engine understands the need to hit the ground running when she returns.

 

I would agree with you if that return was in single-chimney form (with Lempor if necessary to maintain performance). Wouldn't that be a much stronger re-affirmation of the brand image?

 

I would agree with that sentiment, were it not for the last 5 years of pushing the scotsman image below:



Note, double chimney and deflectors.

 

I dont think your average punter knows `Flying Scotsman` by either number that well.

But the name? Well everyones heard of that.

 

And not a speck of green paint (in either shade) to be seen!

 

True enough for that pic!

But the badge originally was coloured and lined, LNER apple green.

You never know, it might be an omen of things to come.

 

I hope so!