Rotting away?

So "more need to be successful".

You continue to avoid the point - made 4 or 5 times now - that some railways simply don't have access to this type of land. You can say "must do better" as much as you like, but that's not going to change things. You are effectively "pointing your finger" at all the other railways which you think haven't done enough. Those railways may be in the middle of protracted negotiations, or waiting for existing owners to sell-up. They may also be stuck with the site they've got. Unless you know the circumstances, it is simply not fair to compare them with the fortunate situation at the IOWSR.

 

You can never underestimate the sheer stupid selfishness of the nimby element. I know an instance of complaints being received because, at a gala, diesel horns were being sounded instead of whistles for three whole days! However, having said this, I don't know if I would want to live next to certain railways. The sort where scrap is strewn about, bangings around and bad language go on until late at night and the motive power emits thick black smoke are less likely to get a positive response to requests of "we would like to buy some of your land but at a giveaway price" kind.

I hasten to say that I am in no way saying that the railways mentioned in this thread as having had problems are guilty of these, or similar sins!

PH

 

IMHO you are rather too accommodating.

PH

 

Quite. It seems that on the GCR, the answer is the museum whatever the question is. As no information has been released on where the other £8m for the initial cost is coming from or what the economics of trying to run a railway museum employing nine(?) paid staff look like, when the market leader offers free access, one can only speculate whether "if you build it they will come" will work in this instance, notwithstanding the mayor of Leicester declaring that Leicester has an "incredible tourist offer", no doubt rivalling York in its manifold attractions. (Bobby's in the Belgrave Road is pretty good though!) However, unlikely things happen like Robert Mugabe becoming a WHO ambassador. If it does happen, the plus side is that it should provide some much needed car-parking. It will not stop the rot among the MK1s and DMUs either way though as pmh74 says.

 

Hopefully.....................

 

I think you have missed some of what I've been getting at (and also some things I have expressly written). The NYM National Park has always been very supportive of the NYMR, but its attitude to new railway-related buildings has not really been tested (apart from at New Bridge, which is only just inside the Park boundary, primarily because there is so little land within the park that is suitable - maybe the field beyond Grosmont depot (which I think the landowner has declined to sell) and perhaps the goods yard at Levisham (which probably isn't big enough) and one or two fields near New Bridge (again, not available). The NYMR is a particular case study that I happen to know a bit about, but I don't think it differs from too many other railways in the situation it is in, National Park or not. The problem with BRB (or whoever) is only a problem w

The point I tried to make about the earlier lines is that it would seem to take perhaps 20-25 years from starting services to be sufficiently established to the point where any more than minimal storage facilities, in particular, start to be provided, so yes the developments on the Bluebell have taken place in the NYMR's lifetime, but the Bluebell had a 20yr head start over them.

 

It's probably worth mentioning that in the early days the NYMR had to fight to retain Pickering station. If they'd had the area of the goods yard and shed, the coal yard and the engine shed, life for the railway would have been a lot simpler.

Sawdust.

 

So please explain how railways without available land should go forward?

 

You will have noted the posting of @gwalkeriow .

PH

 

But the IOWSR, had very supportive neighbors, Hanna Winter, who left her home to the railway, the old gas house, and Goose field that became availible when owners died, it was good luck that the Station was out the back of the village of Havenstreet, and not slap bang in the middle, with only a very small terrace of houses, sharing the site , not every heritage railway was so fortunate to obtain a site with future potensial and next to nothing in the way of buying that land,

 

One option might be to have long-term storage/overhaul facilities off-site. Like Swanage have had to do with Herston Works which is near the line but not rail connected. You may find you have more negotiating flexibility and buying power if a rail connection is not essential. Clearly it wouldn’t work as a running shed but might be one way of de-cluttering a railway and maybe creating enough space for running sheds within the existing railway land, freed from the linear scrap yard. A long-term project, obviously. I’ll pay.

 

That is all very true but the railway set about with a very deliberate policy over a number of decades to slowly increase the size of the site, without which the site at Havenstreet would have remained tiny. I have no doubt that if the small extension to Ryde St Johns takes place that the railway will given the opportunity endeavour to increase its presence.

 

The houses are still in private residential occupation which means no emission of mephitic smoke, which is just what should be the case anyway.

As a matter of fact, local authorities prefer to carry out land assembly by using their compulsory purchase powers as one unco-operative person can stop a scheme from happening but there is an obligation to complete the purchase of the rest. Tourist railways don't have this option, so they just have to press on and hope. The only response to the instance cited by Gary Walker is "God help us"!

PH

 

I have, but I also notice the postings of others, which suggest to me that there is no necessary correlation between a line having a strategy for land assembly, and the successful assembly of that land. As ever, whilst the successes of one railway may provide an example to others, it is unlikely that such an example will work as a template given the widely varying histories, circumstances, and people at each railway.

 

I'm not denying that, but its not like the ground was at risk of becoming a housing estate, As regards Ryde St Johns , i just hope that the added increase to your presence does not become an problem in its self raising the public perception over what you can actually achieve, as unless the Island gets newer and better stock for island line, your restored coaches will be compared to the now worn out electric units and that could present a problem as public wont understand why your stock is pristine, and the electric shabby .

 

"Up to a point Lord Copper", but only up to a point.

The real problem with this site is its tendency to flood. Any brownfield site is in danger of re-development. This is about as "brown" a site as can be imagined but whether this would balance the flooding issue, I don't know.

PH

 

...... and spare a thought for the Corris, it they ever want to head off northwards, I forsee very many groovy times ahead!

 

Swanage have offsite coverd site storage in addition to Herston Works. It contains the unrestored coaches in the heratage coach plan, the ironclad, Bullied brake and two Maunsels including the push pull driving trailer. It is a cost effective of way of storing non working items although this particular facility is not suitable for restoration work. It's worth considering this sort of solution for railways that do not have the luxury of being able to obtain connectable sites. Rail connected storage and facilities have been an issue for us for many good reasons ill not go in to. Hopefully plans are now coming together.

 

However the opposite correlation must be true - if there is no strategy there will be no land.
A successful strategy may need to have alternative options, with the railway prepared to adapt it to the land which becomes available rather than wait forever for a piece of ground which, although ideal, might never come onto the market.