Tornado

Sort what?

 

Is there a market? The number of cancelled trips due to fire will affect things.

What do the industry think of it's reliability? It may have a boiler ticket, but do people have confidence in it? (FTAOD, I have no idea on this, but if it's such a good bet, why is WCRC walking away?)

I'd not want to be taking on any liabilities this year if I were an operator. Maybe a spot-hire in the later part of autumn/winter if there is an uptick.

 

LSL is already a airbraked operator but look at the expanding fleet of their own engines and Sir Nigel that could be taking a back seat when Bittern comes back. Why would they want to pay steaming fees to another third party engine?

 

Are they doing anything with it? I just thought it was part of the 1:1 train set.

 

Well she can’t work west of Newtown on the Cambrian iirc and the ECML is some way off, so it doesn’t help in the here and now?

 

It's back at Crewe for overhaul.

 

Being done by the SNG group, I think that 60163, would be a useful engine to have, especially if LSL are looking at expanding their business, with obtaining the former scotish coaches, would indicate they are, and I would think they could get it quite cheaply, up front, especially if the deal included the P2 at some stage, It would enable LSL to put on the holy grail of railtours for one, A1, A2, A4, and attract custom, the boiler would be a kit of parts, so all the major expenditure will have been done, It would also safe guard the A1 Trust, as it would operate under LSL's safety case, A1 trusts own tours, could be marketed easier, and could also include other motive power, if combined with other tours, such as steam dreams, such as A1 one way, A4 Back, under the envelope of the same organisation, it would be possible,

 

Thought the SNG team were going to overhaul it at facilities in North Yorkshire?

 

Just to correct, LSL have not obtained 'former' Scottish coaches. They have a 2 year co-operation deal with the SRPS, who remain full custodians of their Mk1 fleet.

 

Boiler at Crewe, rest to be done by SNG Engineering.

LSL don't need any more locos. 70000, 34046, 61306, 5029 and 60532 are all available, plus 60007 and 71000 to follow at some point. The limiting factor is the stock - they've only got one set of Mk1s - and crews. Seven locos to cover a couple of charters a week at most is more than enough.

 

I am intrigued that you think that there is a mammoth market for what you describe as the "holy grail of railtours".
It seems pretty accepted that the general public, which is the market these days really only see FS, and to a lesser extent Tornado as something special in the steam world. LSL seem to already sell out most if not all of there steam hauled tours regardless of loco, maybe off the back of what seems to be local flood marketing at the areas around pick up points. As said by @5944 where is their capacity to do much more, or the markets for that matter to absorb more.
This seems to be another of those run it and they will come debates.

 

That is true Fantasy Island stuff.

 

Indeed, there are some of us - admittedly very few - who won't have anything to do with LSL and would take an exceedingly dim view of LSL owning/running 60163.

A thought did cross my mind earlier, and one I hope does not come to pass: much was made by the A1 Trust in the past about older locomotives getting plinthed, hence new builds were the way forward. It would therefore be somewhat ironic if 60163 found itself plinthed as no-one could or would run it.

 

WCRC dont have the best record in court and this is just going to be an expensive, drawn-out mess where the only winners are lawyers.

 

Especially when tours further north, even those with steam, are being cancelled due to lack of bookings.

 

I agree with your conclusion, but there's a difference between commercial deals (where they seem pretty robust), and the High Court/Judicial Review, which is rather a different playing field

 

I have it on very good authority that LSL won’t work with the current A1SLT leadership team

I have it on very good authority that LSL won’t work with the current A1SLT leadership team

 

TBH, what's the alternative the A1 trust struggles to attract funds, and has a real problem with its public statements, As each and every turn the bad news drips out, so does confidence drops, As I see it, if West coast has dropped it, and LSL dont want to operate it, who does that leave, VT who the trust then changed their mind over, DBR who apart from belmont have stopped most of their steam work,except for in steam movements over the network,
the engine needs to generate income, or you just lock it up in a shed, and prehaps some might prefer that, let the boiler ticket ebb away, and only steam it for open days, and preserved railway visits,

 

The current death spiral will continue until there is regime change.

 

There's no mechanism for that though, is there? And even if they did, who'd step up?